Shoot first, aim later!

[John]

Keep having your fun...I'm NOT a native I grew up in Maine, a 'blue' state. Personally. I wish the shooting was the other way around. Do you think that Wittington would have gotten the same treatment that Cheney did, and would the outcome be the same?

[Bauer]

Mike,
I cant believe that flies. Here in ND, we have a 440 yard rule, that a loaded firearm cannot be carried by a person within 440 yards of an occupied structure. Much less shoot that close

[xs650mike]

Well it is mostly vineyards along that stretch and it is private property and posted. Unfortunately these fellows seemed to think that the riverbed was a free fire zone. My house was back far enough that there was no real danger from birdshot but spent shot fell in my yard nonetheless. I suppose I could have called the authorities but I chose simply to confront these folks directly. This was back around 1970. Now I don't think this would be tolerated for even an instant. I only knew my dog had been hit when he limped onto my porch whimpering. I imagine he had gone down there to see what the fuss was about and was accidently hit.

[trbig]

Just my observation, but from what I see... your dog went down to check things out.... maybe scared a dove away... and pissed off the hunters. I don't believe for a second it was an accident. Dogs don't fly... so was he maybe shooting at a dove on the ground?? No. Nobody but your buddies around... a strange "Pesky" dog.... hee hee... watch this guys... BOOM.
Sorry Mike... you handled the situation a little better than I would have.

As for this..

"Mike,
I cant believe that flies. Here in ND, we have a 440 yard rule, that a loaded firearm cannot be carried by a person within 440 yards of an occupied structure. Much less shoot that close"

Can you explain that? A guy can't have a loaded gun in his house? Or walk around his yard with one? Or his hunting cabin? And what about concealed firearms licenses? I understand about no Fedreal buildings... but ANY occupied building? Sounds silly to me... especially since my 30.06 would poke nice clean holes through walls still at over 500 yds... or 1000. Where do you draw the line? Even a 22 or a shotgun with a slug will go that far if improperly aimed.
Sorry so many questions...

Tod

[Bauer]

Sorry I should have elaborated a bit more.

ND law says no firearms (for the purpose of hunting) shall be loaded within 440 yards of an occupied residence, and no person may hunt or persue game on premises no closer than 440 yards to an occupied residence, UNLESS you have written permission to be there.

Your own land, than nothing to worry about.

The 440yd rule isnt directed at the bullet travel so much, but to keep the scatter gun bb's and such away. A rifle bullet travels in a straight line, but shotgun bb's can wind up just about anywhere.

[xs650mike]

The Hounds

Originally posted by trbig
Just my observation, but from what I see... your dog went down to check things out.... maybe scared a dove away... and pissed off the hunters. I don't believe for a second it was an accident. Dogs don't fly... so was he maybe shooting at a dove on the ground?? No. Nobody but your buddies around... a strange "Pesky" dog.... hee hee... watch this guys... BOOM.
Sorry Mike... you handled the situation a little better than I would have.

Tod

Well here's the deal Tod, The Napa River itself flows down in the bottom of an arroyo and only fills up to top of the bank (or over the top as it did recently) during the winter rains. So these hunters are down in the bottom 10-15 ft. from the edge of the bank which is nearly vertical. Like most rivers there's a lot of trees and brush cover along the bank. A bird could be in flight along the edge of the bank or in line with it. There's a party of hunters banging away at the bird or birds and anything that appears on the edge of the bank is in the line of fire. That's what was annoying about the whole situation. Without me going down and telling them how would they know what lies beyond the top of the bank directly above them? I still think they were total jerks to shoot in a direction where they didn't know what lay beyond, I certainly would never be that irresponsible.

I knew it would be dangerous to go down there without letting them know where I was hence the rounds from my 30-30. Nowadays I would simply call the Sheriff's Dept. Not sure if this is up to date but I believe in California it is illegal to discharge a firearm within 200 yards of an occupied dwelling though I suppose there would be exceptions for your own land or land on which you have permission to shoot. These guys didn't have my permission to shoot on my land but they were in the river bottom not on my property. Their spent shot was falling within 15 feet of my house. I had no way of knowing if these were the guys that shot my dog the day before or not. I find it hard to believe that it was deliberate though it is certainly possible. It would be easy to miss seeing a black dog standing in the shadows of the trees.

Afghan hounds are silent hunters and do not announce their presence by barking, the only time they bark is to communicate with the members of the pack or their master and then there would be just one loud bark and then silence. The bark says "I'm over here guys, come check this out." When dealing with an intruder once they have called for assistance they cease to bark and communicate with the intruder by showing their teeth and a barely audible growl.

Several times my dogs surrounded people that were unknown to them in my drive about 30 yards from my house and made them stay put until I came out (having heard the alpha male's one "Woof!") and introduced the person to them. Once introduced they never forgot a person and would greet visitors with wagging tails and escort them to my door. I never trained them to do this, the behavior apparently is deeply ingrained in them by 2 or 3 thousand years of breeding. Same with good manners, it is not necessary to train them not to jump on or crowd people, they just don't do it nor do they ever get rambunctious in the house. In Afghanistan the dogs are expected to catch food for both their masters and themselves, they are not fed and their coats are allowed to mat into dreadlocks as a sort of armor. They are certainly fast enough to catch about any game. A deer can outrun them but not for long, they are reputed to be able maintain a pace of 25 mph for at least 5 miles. I used to ride my motorcycle back and forth on my 1/3 mile driveway with the hounds pacing me at 30 miles per hour for about 2 miles before they showed any sign of tiring.

[xs650mike]

Quayle Award

[LoHo]

I've heard today that the victim was 30 FEET, not yards, away, hence the pellet penetration of his chest. That 60 feet would make a big difference in the effect of the shot. Tight pattern, high energy, knockdown force...anyone know the facts? Cheney isn't talking....
The guy looked like a terrorist anyway...he had it coming!

[xs650mike]

Originally posted by LoHo
...he had it coming!

Yeah, a rich liar...er...lawyer.

[xs650mike]

Originally posted by LoHo
The guy looked like a terrorist anyway...

[xs650mike]

Lawyer!

[JWSanders]

Hah, that's great. That was the first thing I thought of too, Dan Quayle.

I can't imagine a group situation, locked and loaded, when I would not be aware enough not to recognize a person in my field of fire and not shoot them. Especially if he was only 30 feet away. Methinks tricky Dick is a bit trigger happy. I can only imagine what was going through his mind when it happened. What a dumbass thing to do...

[LoHo]

>I can only imagine what was going through his mind when it happened. What a dumbass thing to do...

Based on his actions since, his first thoughts must have been about how to keep it quiet and cover it up. Forthright and open ar not his style.

[Pat Kelly]

Can you blame him for wanting to keep it quiet? Look how everyone is acting. An accident has turned into another cover-up/conspiricy.
I hope those judging him for the lack of info are "forthright and honest" enough to shout "I just dinged this persons car" when they open their car door into someone else.
Everyone's making too big a deal over this. If you accidently shot a hunting partner would volunteer the info to the local paper? If you crashed your bike and didn't have a motorcycle license would you make sure the cop investigating knows that? Or would you keep quiet and hope he overlooks it?
So it's the Vice Prez, or the Gov. they're human too and make mistakes like we all do.

"We love dirty laundry" (Don Hinley)

[Bauer]

Took the words right out of my mouth Pat, im not defending him, but its just one of those things, it goes back to when you were a kid, if you hit a baseball through a neighbors window, you ran, even though you knew by the time you got home, your parents would all ready know. Just because its a person of stature, its this big conspiracy, I dont think so.