parts bike

[xs650mike]

If you haven't yet tried it...I say go ahead and fill the cylinders. Filling them with MMO is pretty expensive so put in a little and top off with diesel fuel or kerosene. Let it sit for a few days. Use a turkey baster with a length of tubing on it to remove the diesel fuel and try to break it loose (with the sparkplugs removed) by rocking it back and forth in top gear. This has worked for me and many others. Change the oil afterwards because it'll be contaminated with diesel.

MMO is wonderful stuff. I had a stuck lifter on my car and my auto mechanic suggested I add some to my crankcase oil. Started the car and before the engine had warmed up the lifter pumped up. Potentially expensive problem fixed just like that.

Don't fill the cylinders, though, for when it cranks...

[BLUEJEEPLAB]

I'll testify to the MMO thing. Years ago I locked up my XS400 on a nice warm San Joaquin valley day. Towed it home, put it in the carport. Two days later a bud mentioned the MMO trick and since $$ were tight and I didn't want to rip the motor apart without money to properly re-assemble, I invested a few dollars in Marvel. Within an hour I had a running XS again. It ran for another 4 years when I moved to Tidewater Virginia where the Cage drivers just scared the Bee Jeebers out me so I sold it. Never did figure out why it seized in the first place.

[oldschool]

Just made a trip to local bike salvage yard. Tripped over complete xs1100 motor (less side covers now). Owner says all his engines are spun tested before they hit the salvage pile. Parts are still out there to make a complete non running parts bike a runner again.
Paid 40.00 for side covers and front turn signal assemblies.

[DeanR]

Based on everyone's suggestion, put some MMO into the cylinders yesterday. # 2 & 3 took Very little. Being completely engine ignorant at this point I am assuming that means the pistons are all the way up. Only about an inch below the lip ( # 1 & 4 seem to be about 4 in. below the lip). They must get REAL close to the plug tips!
Skipped the diesel. Not sure what that would add to the processs. Rocking has not freed anything yet. Regarding rocking it in top gear aren't you also working against the transmission? and would you feel it break free?
Rolls ok with clutch in and I didn't see anything that looked unusual after pulling the valve cover.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Dean,

The lower pistons will only be 2.7" down there, cause that's the total STROKE of this engine!

But, yes, they do come very close to the spark plugs! The transmission is your leverage for being able to turn the engine with the torque of the rear wheel. Just like trying to push start a car! The higher gear allows the rear wheel to turn more turns before it tries to turn the engine, so you have a better lever.

I've noticed that since the engine is frozen, that other Xsives haven't suggested getting the bike rolling a little bit with the clutch pulled in and then popping the clutch!? If you don't weigh much, then this would provide you with a bit more turning torque!

Any rebuttals to this technique for breaking it loose!?
T.C.

[prometheus578]

It doesn't take much. Just a few tablespoons so that it gets to the rings to loosen them if they're stuck to the walls of the cylinder. If you do get it to turn... don't try startin' it, not with the oil in the cylinders. A tablespoon or two is ok, but anything more, you can cause damage when it tries to compress. Once you get it to turn, crank it over with the plugs removed... just stand to the side as it pumps that oil out the plug holes!!
Yes, not much room at the top when the pistons are up. That's why it's so easy to bend a valve if you mess up the timing.
Diesel, kerosine, MMO, tranny fluid, I use WD40... all the same idea, either loosen rust, or disolve gunk in there.
Rocking it in gear: Normally, the engine spins the tranny which then spins the tire. What you're trying to do is get the tire to turn the tranny, which in turn will spin the engine.

[prometheus578]

I'm not there, so I have to ask stupid questions.

Rolls ok with clutch in

1: Will the bike roll in neutral with the clutch out?
2: Will the bike roll in any gear with the clutch in?
Had a guy abandon a KZ750 last year... (He thought he'd seized the engine... couldn't get it to turn over for anything) I tore into it a little last spring... pulled the cylinders, pistons and looked inside. Engine was fine... something in the tranny was siezed. I just gave it away last month to a guy that wanted it for parts, so I never found out what really happened in there.
3: Have you pulled the engine case covers yet to see if anything's loopy with those gears?
None, T.C., should work if it's just the engine stuck.

[xs650mike]

You can use diesel instead of MMO. Remove it from the cylinders with a turkey baster with a length of tubing on the end before trying to break the engine loose otherwise you'll have a big mess. Leave the spark plugs out when you break it loose, put it in top gear and rock back and forth.

[DeanR]

Does roll in neutral.
Does roll in any gear with clutch in. Though not as freely as the good bike. There's also a more noticeable transmission "clunk" when getting it moving with the clutch in than there is on the other bike.
I'm waiting to pull covers and drain oil until this method has a bit of time to work or not. Not that I would know what I was looking for anyway! One way to learn though

[prometheus578]

Ok, I'd say tranny is probably good.

I'm waiting to pull covers and drain oil until this method has a bit of time to work or not. Not that I would know what I was looking for anyway!

Broken teeth... jammed gears.. stuff that would be obvious.
Yeah, let the rings soak fer a spell.

[DeanR]

Drained the oil for further disassembly of stuff.
It has some very fine metallic particles in it (looks kind of like I would imagine gold dust might look like). Not a lot, but it is there.
Could this be a sign of what happened in the motor to lock it up?
Nothing looks unusual under the valve cover.
Pulling the oil pan is next. Can you do that if the motor is still in the bike?

Also, to a moderator, this motor diagnosis stuff wasn't the intent of my original thread. Should this maybe be renamed and/or moved to the tech section? or maybe I should start a new one? Thanks

[DiverRay]

Fine metal particles should not be too bad. If there are a lot of them, almost sludge like, that would be a problem. You can pull the oil pan with the engine in the bike. That is how we repair 2nd gear.
Ray

[DeanR]

Pulled the pan. Same fine copper colored flecks or particles. A little bit sludge-like but not too bad. I have no way of judging how much is too much. There's nothing else odd looking in the pan. There is a strainer (oil pump?) that is a little gunked up and it cleaned right up.

Now what do I try to get a look at next, concering this stuck motor?

[randy]

Copper colored flecks sounds like bearing material. You may have some spun bearings.

[DeanR]

Sorry, don't know what spun bearings means.
Fixable or bad news and what do I now need to do to verify this possibility?