xj1100 2nd gear

[xjguy]

Did the 2nd gear thing on my bike this holiday weekend instead of cutting the grass- pull cord broke for the 3rd time in 3 weeks on the lawnmower. Didn't have any pop rivets left to reinstall cord reel again. So I decided what the heck, do the bike. used gears from 2000 mile xj1100.
So nice to wind it out in 2nd gear without it popping in and out of gear. Don't think I could have done it without the great tech tips from this site. Absolutely awesome site!!!!!

Thanks, xjguy

1982 xj1100 named "gone with the wind"
1980 CBX- that is going bye-bye
1972 cb350 that has dreams of being cafe racer

[rickmcdougald]

xj1100 2nd gear - which method?

Hiya xjguy,
You said, "... nice to wind it out in 2nd gear without it popping in and out of gear. "

Out of curiosity: which method did you use to mitigate your "2nd gear problem"? Was it the dremel method or moving the washer from one side of the 2nd gear to the other?
RLMcD

(I've heard of two different methods. This is an informal survey.)

Jerry Fields 12-29-04 posting:
(... Yes, tripples and other Yamahas of the same general vintage have the same transmission design and therefore the same problems. Its is a bit worse in the 1100s because of the extra power. Fix is the same, replace with new gears that are tapered from the factory (increases engagement of the gears) or move the washer to the other side of the gear, which also increases
engagement. Tapering the "dogs" was Yamaha's fix.)

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Rick,

Put your glasses on!! He stated that he used a set of gears from a bike that only had 2000 miles on it, barely broken in! But they are still square cut, and so eventually in 40 or so kmiles, he'll have to tear it apart again, and then do the Dremmel, or get new gears!?
T.C.

[rickmcdougald]

Hey TC,
Ya know, GLASSES HELP!
RLMcD

[Winterhawk]

It would of been bullet proof if you would of moved the washer on the opposite side of the gear and bevel the inside of the washer. I did 1 last year and so far 2 this year. Used Bob Jones's method and advice. No way they will break now.

[rickmcdougald]

Thanks Winterhawk,
I was just trying to find out what others have done for their 2nd-gear situation.
I appreciate the feedback.
RLMcD

[T748]

"...replace with new gears that are tapered from the factory (increases engagement of the gears)."

Is this true? If I order a set from Yamaha will they be "new and improved" or just the same thing thats in my XJ now? I'm planning the second gear fix this winter, not sure yet if i'm gonna replace parts, or "massage" what I have now. Thanks- Tom.

[xjguy]

didn't move the washer- wish i had.
new about that but forgot.
so far so good
went 58,000 miles before became a problem
so 40k will work for me
so here's hoping

[rickmcdougald]

Hmmm,
Anyone else with their unabashed input on this "2nd-gear" thing?
Thanks ...

RLMcD

[John]

I had mine fixed last year when I had the engine apart for the big bore. I would recommend going to an independent bike repair shop that has some older guys twisting wrenches, and talk to one of them. They are probably very familiar with the problem, and they could tell you of a good machine shop that could do the work. Don't go to a dealer with the problem, they won't have a clue as to what to do.

[TopCatGr58]

Well, Rick,

I don't know about Unabashed? I did mine going on 5 years ago, however I haven't put 5 "DAILY" riding years worth on it, only a few thousand, probably 5 or less, but it's holding great. I've done several wheelies, lots of hard driving in the mountains in Ga. and such, rode 2 up this last spring, and never a skip or miss, and I didn't get the extra washer or moved it, just undercut the gears and they mesh and hold just great!
T.C.

[spinalator]

Any Updates on this?

I was wondering if there were any new info on this. I had a mechanic tell me how carving on your dogs can expose the soft underbelly or something, and hasten wear and tear. SInce it is slipping after 14000 km, I ask, how much worse can it get?

[DiverRay]

I used a combination of new and dremel cut gears on my bike. That was almost 30K miles ago, and it's still going strong. I also did the washer move, and I think that helps a LOT.

[spinalator]

Thanks for the reply. I don't have an XS anymore, but still have an XJ 750. Many secas and maxims seem to have some the same issues.

I am not sure if the washer thing is applicable to my XJ, as my service manual is buried somewhere in moving boxes.

[Jerry]

There have been quite a few discussions on moving the washer from one side of the gear to the other. One past thread even has a list of Yamaha washers in different thicknesses, complete with part numbers, so you can choose the thickness that is right for you. Most everyone uses the standard washer, which is no longer available from Yamaha.

Moving the washer will increase engagement of the 2nd - 5th gear set by about .040 inches, the thickness of the washer. Same trick can be done with other Yamaha transmissions of the same age, and even the early (to mid-'85) Ventures had the same problems and same fix.

One point of concern was moving the washer lets the 2nd gear shoulder ride on the circlip. One posting blamed a transmission failure on this; that was several years ago and so far no one else has reported this problem. If my recollection is good, the failure was in a bike that was used for drag racing and had been heavily modified.

None the less, the alternative is to find a spare washer, take it and the gear to a machine shop, and have the gear cut to fit the washer in place so there is a washer bewteen the clip and gear. You still move the original washer to the other side of the gear to increase engagement, so you end up with 2 washers. This is probably overkill. I did mine this way and it cost about $25.00 to get the gear cut. Extra washer came from a donner tansmission.

It has also been reported that the new gears, undercut from the factory, may not need to have the washer moved; the tapered fingers tend to pull the gears together. This may be true, but since one has the tranny apart anyway, moving the washer seems to be extra insurance and doesn't hurt anything, so is done in most cases. Ideal set-up is new undercut gears, move the washer, and add the 2nd washer to a gear modified with a pocket to fit the washer. I don't think you would ever have a 2nd gear problem again!

Photo with gear cut for washer on circlip side is:
http://www.rctvonline.net/~xs11/2nd_gear.jpg

Bottom line: Moving the washer will increase engagement of the 2nd - 5th gear set, giving you more contact area and lessening the change of skip caused by gear wear. This has proven effective and reliable for many tens of thousands of miles from many riders. However, you may run a very small risk of circlip failure if you do not modify the gear to accept a 2nd washer on the circlip side.