Global Warming My &^^

[jeffe]

Mid Ohio, end of April and spitting snow and 30's all weekend. Where is this global warming they keep promising.

[TopCatGr58]

Funny you should mention it! I've been watching some interesting shows on the Discovery and Learning channels over the past several weeks, and we're actually experiencing the early affects of the global warming affect.

Something about how the increased warmer weather causes melting of the Greenland Ice Sheets, which dumps a bunch of fresh water into the North Atlantic, which contaminates the deep oceanic currents slowing it down, or eventually stopping it, which would then actually lead to more severe cold weather along the eastern seaboard due to the stoppage of the Gulf Stream as well as disruption of many other atmospheric currents that depend on the deep ocean currents!?!?!?!

[RUSH]

sounds like the movie "The day after tommorow"

[MartyA]

"The day after tommorow"

That's when summer comes in NW PA.

[fredintoon]

GWs true meaning.

Hi Jeffe,
it's not that a (what? 2º?) temperature rise would be unwelcome of itself, especially in Canada, it's what comes with it.
Namely that the normal weather patterns will be totally bollixed up and run to extremes, all of them showing up at exactly the wrong time.
Fred Hill, S'toon.

[Czekus21]

Deserts out of forest's, and lake's. Dry where it used to be wet. Wet where it used to be dry. Extinction of what used to roam and new birth of something not yet alive. This is a part of our planet. The dinosaurs died, or evolved into something else and the climates been changing since the begining of time. All I know for a fact is how things have changed since I've been alive. The rest is books and hear-say. God put us on this earth with a brain and the ability to think and make decisions. To improvise, adapt and overcome. One day though, we won't be able to adapt enough and poof, We're gone like the dinosaurs. I don't care who you are. Aint no one getting out of this world alive SO I guess we'll have to deal with it.

[MAXIMAN]

Since Al Bore has come out with his alarmist "crock-umentary" I decided to search the threads for a global warming topic...and this was it. There obviously isn't much interest in the subject here and probably for good reason...(yawn)..........

However, in light of that I would still like to post some historical scientific facts concerning this subject. As a earth scientist having studied the planet for roughly 30 years, I am a bit disconcerted with most of the rhetoric regarding the subject.

While it is true that the earth is warming many of the people in the debate are utterly ignoring one fact. I suppose that is to be expected; they are not earth scientists. Some of them are climatologist and meteorologist. Many are simply political hacks.

They are looking at the issue through a "peep hole" of time when in fact they should be looking at the big picture. They are studying this phenomenon through a microscope when they should be examining it via telescope.

In spite of the fact the earth is 4.5 billion years old; in spite of the fact the earth's sediments hold a record of climate change for the past 500 million years, some ill-informed types insist on concentrating only on the past century. This approach is sheer folly. It is analogous to taking a patient's temperature at the out set of a 'bout with the flu, then proclaiming the temperature of the human body is 103 and CLIMBING!!! Having never looked at the patient past history, the doctor has completely disregarded the patient's history. He has utterly ignored the fact his patient has had a temperature of 98 for years and years with only intermittent and ephimeral flows of high temperature on few occasions in the past.

NEWSFLASH:

Global warming is OLD NEWS! The earth has been in it's current warming trend for 25,000 years! Since the end of the Ice Age the surface temperature of the earth has been warming. Most of you should know from grade school that glaciers once extended as far south as Texas. They have since retreated a few thousand miles NORTH! Now that my friends is global warming and it happened long long before man could even imagine to impact the earth's climate.

What happen to those sheets of ice. I don't think it was Cro-Magnon driving around in his SUV.

Rest assured the phenomenon of global warming is an ancient one. The earth has warmed and cooled numerous times over the past 500 million years that we know of. The current "heat wave" we are now experiencing is nothing new. It's been in the making for 25,000 years. But some people certainly want to make you think it is and there must be an ulterior motive for the bending of such data. Hmmmmm...I wonder what that could be?

Lastly, when I matriculated 30 years ago the field of science in general was pure pursuit. Science was generally concerned with discovering truth. Scientists had credentials and education that were used in conjunction with bona fide data to excavate truth from the ruins of the universe. Science used to have credibility and for good cause. Science in and of itself has helped solve many "real problems" for mankind and cure real illness.

It saddens me to report that science over the past quarter century has been reduced to a political football. Science is now being used as a politcal weapon to scare people in order to accomplish some social goal. Science is now agenda based and many of the so called "scientists" are nothing more than political hacks trying to force their way of thinking down the throat of the public under the guise of credibility.

No my friends, global warming is nothing new. Global warming and cooling is as old as the earth itself. 30,000 years ago Manhattan was covered in 300 meters of ice. I have no doubt that in 30 or 50 or 100 thousand years it will be covered in ice again. The proponents of modern global warming remind of the childhood story of Chicken Little running around screaming "THE SKY IS FALLING...THE SKY IS FALLING...!!!"

Seriously,

Cody Griffin
CPG

[CWilliamson]

That's what my geology professor told our class...

of course he prefaced it by reminding us that his primary job was locating oil for the oil industry...

Don't forget that if you want to research something that you need to raise concerns about it and scare the snot out of the public to raise funding...

[jeffe]

Michael Crichton's [ spelling may be suspect] book "State of Fear" is a good other look at the issue. It is a work of fiction but he does back most of what he says with footnotes. I checked a few of them out and they were not made up. I would recomend this book to any one. His other books are also very good.

[mainlylinux]

I never know what side to believe on this subject. And if it is happening like it's been said, how worried should I be?

Just like trying to make foul resistant to bird flu; isn't it natural for some birds to die and the strong to survive?

Dan

[pggg]

O.K. then, if the north pole melts, then the sea level's gonna DROP right? Ice displaces more volume than water right? 80% of the ice cap is below sea level right? Where's the RISING sea level theory coming from then?

[MAXIMAN]

That would be true. Take a glass full of ice, fill it to the brim with water and allow the ice to melt. What happens? The level in the glass actually falls because ice take up more area per unit volume than does it's liquid equivalent water. Thus it floats.

However a HUGE part of the polar ice caps are actually on a continent. You guessed it...Antarctica.

But this is all irrelevant to the arguement. The discourse of this debate is to determine the root causes of the warming. Any earth scientist that has truely studied our illustrious planet knows quite well the phenomenon of global temperature fluctuation is as old as time and is nothing new. And much like other geologic phenomenon there is little man can do to affect said fluctuations. The mere idea that the cessation of some man derived activity could stop it is utterly ridiculous.

[Geezer]

Maximan, thanks for the rational look at the issue. I understand that to many, global warming and the environment are a religion looked on with perfect faith and looking at the facts is blasphemy.

I ran across a couple bits of info that I’d like to know if you could corroborate. One was the temp of the earth hasn’t risen since 1998 and the other was the polar (CO2) ice caps on Mars have also diminished since the Voyager probe took the close up pix in the late 1960s. I don’t remember where I read this but I’ve been trying lately to get some documentation on the subject.

BTW, I did the ice in the glass demonstration for a group of friends. Everybody should do this at least once.

Geezer

[MAXIMAN]

Regarding the idea that the earth's temperature hasn't risen since 1998...I can not confirm that. It doesn't sound right but I'm not sure. It's really very irrelavent considering the earth is indeed in a warming cycle and has been for 25 or 30,000 years. A trend that we won't see reversed in our vapor of a lifetime.

Yes I have read that Martian polar caps have retreated as well. The lends credibilty to the notion that the sun may well be the root cause of planetary warming since man can NOT be the cause of warming on Mars.

[Geezer]

Somewhere I read a short article that hypothesized that we are nearing the end of a solar warming cycle and (as I recall) the earth not warming since 98 was evidence of this. I don’t remember where I read this and I’d like to find the article again.

BTW, did you see that PBS show about darkening skies. Supposedly particulate mater in the air is diminishing the amount of sunlight reaching earth but they completely ignored photosynthesis. If their hypothesis were true, then farms would be growing less and that simply isn’t the case.

Geezer