Need photo of Rim(s)

[TopCatGr58]

Hey there folks,

I was wondering if anybody had a tubed 78 front wheel/rim and a tubeless without the tire on it that they could take a dig shot of it looking straight on edge like the wheel was rolling towards you, to show the width and height and depth of the tubewell as well as the thickness of the bead and shoulder??

Pat Kelly sent me some shots of some rear wheels, one 16" tubeless, one 17" tubed which shows the comparison of the rims, but would like to get some shots of the fronts, all for an upcoming tech tip for tubeless vs. tubed!!

The photos don't have to all come from the same person, if one person has just the front tubeless....then send them, and if another has a front tubed rim, send them, I'll collate them in the tip, just please lable them what they are.

A shot of the words, TUBE from the spokes would be nice. I've got a tubeless set that I can take of the spokes myself, but don't want or need to take my tires off of their rims right now. :P

Thanks in advance, feel free to email them to me!!
T.C.

[pgg]

Cat this front wheel has 'suitable for tubeless tyres' stamped on it.

http://homepages.inspire.net.nz/~pat...s19inchrim.jpg

[TopCatGr58]

Thanks PGG,

That was fast!!! Now for a TUBED style front rim, most likely from a 78.....anybody!?
T.C.

[tfm3]

Didn't have that on my list of things to look for on my trip to the local XS boneyard today-there are ten or so 77-79's in a row there with rims intact. I'll look for the tubers next week-camera in hand.

[Winterhawk]

My 78 is still working great and loosing no air yet.

[Pat Kelly]

I have a bare 78 front rim not marked tubeless. I'll send a pic when I get home.

[jetmechmarty]

I have never seen one of these wheels without the "tubeless" stamp. I have an old XS650 carcass that I believe to be a '78 or '79. The front wheel is identical to that on the XS1100. It is marked "tubeless" as well. I have heard talk of the cast wheels that require tubes on the 650 board, but I have never actually seen these wheels.

[ratbyk]

Tubeless Tire Conversion

TC, for your info on tubeless tire conversions. I have converted a rear wheel for the Ratbyk by:
1. Drilling out the valve stem hole and the 2 tire clincher holes to 5/8"

2. Filed a flat surface on the inside of the wheel at the drill point to remove burrs and to create a flat surface for the new valve stem washer/collar to seat to.

3. Installed small diameter, short truck tubeless tire valve stems.

4. Put a smear of weatherstrip adhesive around the rubber collar on the valve stem.

5. Wet sanded the inside bead surface on the wheel with wet 400 paper- lightly.

6. Mounted a Michelin Macadam 130/90/17 tubeless tire.

7. Blew tire up to 40PSI 2days ago and checked this am. It still has 40 PSI in it.

I think I have created a way to mount tubeless tires on the early rims. I will run it for awhile and report back on out come.

Check pictures at:
http://www.imagestation.com/zc?danie...w.ca&7511451&1
and:http://www.imagestation.com/zc?danie...w.ca&7511447&1

It is my belief that tubeless will run cooler/last longer/and be easier to repair on the road then our original tube types.
Ken/Sooke
78E Ratbyk
82 FT500 "lilRat"

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Ken,

Thanks, that's great info and Pix!! Wish I knew you were doing this before you put the new tire on! What I would also like to get are the circumference measurements of the wheel at the base of the rim bead...the inner edge!

The rears seem to be easier to convert cause they have that large flat edge next to the side bead/rim, but the fronts don't seem to have much there on the Tubed type.

When you put the tire on the rim, did it seem to flop too easily down to the side bead, or did it feel snug and did you have to use the strong inflation to push the tire bead out to the edge of the rim??

That seems to be the question about the fronts, that during a sudden loss of pressure, the tire bead isn't very tight on the rim, and so would contribute to a greater loss of control with the tire slipping all around on the rim, vs. staying snugly against the rim bead!?

You know, like it's pretty hard to break the bead seal on a tire that's been mounted for a while, that old "tire bead indian dance"!! So, when you mount the new tire on the front, will be very interested in how hard/snug the tire slides outwards against the bead, and how hard it is to then break the bead after deflating?!

Anybody out there got some rubberless tubeless rims, both front and back, that they can measure the circumference of the rim down at the bottom/inside edge of the bead??
T.C.

[ratbyk]

Tubeless

TC, I used the rear rim off my parts bike. I hand levered the old tire off. Completed the tubeless tire valve installation. Then took both wheels to my local bike shop. Had them mount my new Michelin on the original wheel with a tube. The tire that came off that rim still has a couple of thousand km in it. (1/8" tread depth left in the center) This is the one I had mounted on the modified rim. They used their tire machine to mount. I just watched. After mounting before air installed the tire appeared to be sitting tightly against the rim. Absolutely no problem blowing up. It just blew up.
I'm making a 3-4 day run through the BC moutains next weekend and wanted a fresh round tire for that trip. Will put the old tire and modified rim on after that to run my monies worth off the old tire and road test this tubeless experiment. Will report back on that after the tire is kaput.
Over the winter I'm planning on also converting the front over to tubeless. Will measure up the front inner shoulder for you at that time.
If that works then the new rear will be dismounted and tubeless valves installed and mounted tubeless.
Time to buy a tubeless tire plug kit.
A trick I learned from James ? Dell (FJR1300) at Bozeman might interest you as well. He had bought a cheap compressor ($9.95) from WalMart. He disassembled it and removed all of the bulky out side plastic housing and the cooling fan. Kept the compressor/gauge/air line/electrical connections. This shrunk the compressor to about the size of your fist. He figured with the plastic housing out of the way he could run it long enough to blow up a tire without it overheating to the seizer point. He carried it in a small plastic bag under his seat. I have been packing one of those large aerosol tire repair cans. Fortunately never had to use but still lugged it everywhere. It must weigh 2 lbs. Hope to update with a similar compressor as well for next season.
Ken/Sooke
78E Ratbyk
82 FT500 "lilRat"

[ratbyk]

Rim Measurements

OK, TC, just for you. I hand levered the tire off the front rim of my parts bike just now.
The circumference of the shoulder at the base of the inner bead is: 60 1/4" (182 mm) This was hard to do. The tape kept wanting to slip down into the well of the rim. Finally Red/Green taped it several places to hold it while I took a measurement. I'm as close on the measurement as I can get. It was hard to do.
The effective inner face of the bead is: 1/2" (13 mm) By effective I'm referring to the straight portion. It is longer/taller but you then enter into the radius's or chamfer's.
The shoulder at the base of the bead (the 60 1/4" circumference) is: 3/8" (10 mm) Again this is the straight portion before you get into radius's and chamfers.
Have not figured out what you can do with these measurements except write it down somewhere. Cannot think of a practical use for them.
I will be cleaning this rim up and converting over to tubeless with a tubeless truck valve. Then I guess I buy another front tire. Will be tubeless front and rear come spring.
Ken/Sooke

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Ken,

Thanks for the hard work!! As for what I want the measurements for, it's for comparing to the later years designed for tubeless. So....now, if anyone has a front wheel from a later model, "already" without a tire on it(don't really want anyone to do much extra work here!);p, if you could measure that same circumference, then we'll have the info we need for proper comparisons for arguments sake!

BTW, Ken, when you go to put the new tire on, after inflating it and spreading it out so the bead is seated, how about deflating it, and seeing how hard it is to break the bead loose!? Again, more info for argument/debate as to pros/cons of safety for this conversion!
T.C.

[randy]

Well, TC,

Here's some fodder for this discussion. I'm running tubeless dunlops on my tube-type rims on my 79F with tubes inside just to be safe.

When I deflate them, I can remove the beads by hand WITHOUT A TIRE IRON, I mean with my bare hands. Shocked me into not even attempting to run without tubes!

I have invested in a set of tubeless rims and plan to do the conversion over the winter, so I can send detailed rim comparison photos then, but not before. After spending 7 months re-building, I want to get every minute of riding out of the Swamp Thing before laying her up for the winter....

Cheers,

Randy

[TopCatGr58]

Hey there Randy,

Thanks for the input!! Is that both FRONT and Rear, or mostly the front wheel that you can pull the bead loose by hand!?

I wonder if folks who are converting to tubeless might be better off running that Stop Leak stuff inside, to help further prevent a "SUDDEN" loss of air pressure allowing a more controlled deceleration affect, vs. a catastrophic blowout type event?!
T.C.

[randy]

TC;

It's both wheels. Although the leak stopper might help to slow the deflation rate, I don't think it will prevent the tire from spinning on the rim, though.

There goes the balance.

Randy