Bohica

[ViperRon]

We are more and more defendant each day on what we get from the internet. So people here, are not again surprised by an update, I offer this. Reading articles and seeing past history is a good education in what to expect. Microsoft contrary to past explanations will now as of today only release cumulative patches to 7 and 8.1. There will no longer be a way to apply the changes you want and avoid the rest. Interactions between applications running on Windows and Explorer11 will be seamlessly linked to where updating will be near a requirement to go on the internet. Along with this is a barrage of graphical updates. Many businesses have remained on Windows 7 no matter what they have been encouraged to do. Lots of money there to be made.

Some experts say this change is a definite way to control what works in Windows. Could be today your graphics card works, tomorrow well maybe not anymore. Maybe now you have to buy that new computer with Microsoft 10. I do imagine that free will only free till you have no where else to go, but its just my opinion. If I am right, Microsoft will soon be issuing a new to start cheap lease plan for use of Microsoft 10. Then your ability to use a Microsoft computer will be just like the phone, cable or taxes a continual cost for use. And don't forget you will not be able to avoid those informative commercials anymore. Don't trust my opinion look for yourself.

Bohica Bend Over Here It Comes Again

[TADracer]

Thing I hate about it all is how blatant they get, updates notwithstanding. I use Windows 7 for my small business and after Windows 10 came out started to get all the 'upgrade to windows 10' stuff a hundred times a day. After clicking no about a thousand times Windows 10 just decided to upload itself in the middle of the night! My computer stays on 24/7 because of the nature of my business. It pissed me off but I decided to grin and bear it. After about a week the task bar stopped working and I had to use another computer to go online to find a fix using a line of code. Did this three times then the internet started running so slow that if you went to a web page you might as well go to get some coffee because most web pages took several minutes to load up.

I managed to save all my data and did a clean re-install of Windows 7 from my repair disk. Soon I started getting those 'upgrade to 10' notices again. So I found a small program called "I don't want windows 10" and that stopped their interference.

Windows 10 upgrade just about wrecked my small business.

[ViperRon]

Well Mike fear not you are not the only one. Some of the issues are very insidious. My cousin has a household wireless router I set up for them about 3 years ago. All was working fine and then one day they could not use their computer to connect. I could not drive down then so I helped them run a few things to identify the problem and they took it to a computer shop for the guy to work on it. After about 200.00 and a week it was returned and even though they could not duplicate the problem they did find issues with the Upgrade issue to 10 and had terrible problems fixing that. Well after 3 days it stopped working again so I finally went there. They have 3 PC's 2 on Windows 10 one apple. One Windows 10 PC would not get new IP address from the router the others work fine my PC worked fine and that computer worked fine on other networks. Issue was an update to windows driver for that computers network card driver that only had issues when connecting to certain routers. So if you had this wireless network card it would no longer connect to some routers at the network layer. At the hardware level the cards talked so this was a terrible problem to identify and when I contacted the PC shop they now had 3 PC's there with similar issues and refunded my cousins money.

[Prothec]

On new hardware, Windows 10 works very well. Not so much on older hardware. Think about the updates that Microsoft produces, though.. the simple fact is they do not make money developing updates to their existing operating systems. They make money through deals with hardware vendors, commercial licensing, etc. There's also been a shift from perpetual software licenses (Windows 7) to subscription service (Office 365) as a sustainable business model.

I'm a software developer (read: programmer). A big struggle we have is to convince customers to update. It costs exponentially more in time and money the more previous versions of a software product you must support and takes time away from future development.

This is also partially why the hosted model and web-based products work so well. For hosted products/SAAS, customers don't often get a choice regarding updates. Everyone is on the latest and greatest with the most current security fixes and there is one unified version to support. That's in the best interest for everyone involved especially as those who are leveraging security flaws have become much more sophisticated over the years.

Not to mention hardware technology advancements. The new versions of Windows, for instance, are designed to leverage these advancements. Windows 7 was release in 2009. At this point, that's 7 years of technological improvements, which is an eternity for computer technology.

But alas, consider the audience. We own 34+ year old motorcycles here. It's the perfect place to commiserate over being forced to buy something new

Keep in mind the hardware vendor has a major role in producing functional drivers for the version of Windows you're using. There are also certain standards the hardware vendor is supposed to follow to ensure compatibility.

[TopCatGr58]

I'm wanting to reply to this in so many ways, but mostly as a CONSUMER.

Let me draw some comparisons. As was pointed out, a big portion of this audience are folks with very old machines(Hardware) that aren't the fastest or the most powerful(CPU/Ram), but still work and meet our needs(productivity), and are easy to use, we already know how to use them(interface). We can ride them just locally in town, like to the post office or store(Email/eBay), or we can get out on the superhighway, (Stream Video/play games). There are maintenance/use costs involved(gas/oil/tires/batteries/tags/insurance, etc=Internet Access fees/electricity costs/media purchases), but we OWN the bike and can otherwise use it whenever and wherever we want to. Yes, there are newer models that have come out by Yamaha, and they don't support our old machines with available parts anymore, but we can still use our machines, we aren't being told that we can't use our machines anymore.

I've been using Windows since 3.0 and Dos 4 IIRC. In the early days the technology was in it's infancy, and so drastic changes were expected, and the software that controlled it, Win95, 98, NT, 2K, XP, "7", 8.1, 10; from 8bit, 16bit, 32bit and then 64 bit OS's. The GUI was relatively the same through most of the iterations, but with 8.0 M$ oopsed big time. A lot of folks are intimidated by technology, and don't take likely to "CHANGE", and it takes quite a bit of effort to have to learn a new/different way of doing something especially when the old way worked just fine! It's also $$ for employers to have to retrain folks in how to do their job all over again just to be able to deal with the NEW WAY/Interface to the OS/program. Also IT dept's have a hard time keeping computers in the network compatible with existing software that is crucial for the functioning of the business, and only earlier versions of Internet Explorer to work with the Intranet structure.

I learned how to use Office/Word 97, and the menus and such remained the same until 2008 when it was drastically changed( I STILL HATE IT ). I would bet that less than 1% of the folks that use Word can actually use all/most of the changes/features in the program....vs the rest of us that just need to type a basic letter/document.
I still have and use Office 2000, was able to find a way to install it first on my Win7 and then on Win10 the same way, just needed a file from XP that is no longer in the System folder of 7/10.

I bit the bullet at the last minute and installed Win10 on my older system that I had built in 2010, just had to update/upgrade my graphics card, had upgraded my CPU to a XEON and had to update to a custom BIOS for my Mobo to be able to use the XEON. It's been working fine and have been able to use most of my older software....especially my video editing stuff, Nero burning Rom7ultimate, stuff like that. I was a bit surprised that they(M$) offered it(10) for free, but after their major screwup with 8/8.1, it seemed like the right thing to do. They(M$) already make their $ like was said from computer manufacturers buying OS's for the systems, and they also make extra $ when folks are no longer given restore/backup discs for when the hard drives crash, and most folks don't know that they are required to make/BURN their own system recovery/OS restore discs, and think that they only need to rely on the restore/OOTB recovery partition on the hard drive...but of course that won't work when the hard drive grenades, so IF they want to keep using their machines, they have to purchase new installation copies of the OS!

But if they try to get me to upgrade to another OS that requires a subscription, I'll look very hard at LINUX stuff. It seems to work well for my Cell Phone and tablet....looks like Apple wasn't able to keep the monopoly on that(iPad and phones), kinda like Betamax vs. VHS . Oh well, I'll shut up now!

T.C.

[bikerphil]

Linux and be free.

[ViperRon]

Yea TC Office 360 2016 that's another dung ball. Updated from 8.1 to Windows 10 no issues old programs run office 2010 worked fine upgraded to 2013 Office then 2016 Office all working good then an automatic Widows update failed Office 360 no longer licensed. Microsoft techs worked on it 2 days could not fix it could not restore it. Aha do the windows restore it fails Windows corrupts format partitions restore 8.1 apps working all good again did the Windows 10 update none of the previous applications will work that were originally loaded and Office 360 2010 does not work and drivers for DVD Drive and camera will not work. Got specific patch fixes from Windows and DVD drive now works but fails only on Windows 10 Back up. Yea 15 month old PC turned to crap really I will never run Office again on my PC that is over. Running free WPS Office from King soft and functions fine and guess what it does not automatically change things for me as I am typing just to mess me up like Office 2016 did. Yea I know its a help like it helped someone I know change a letter from needing a good ditch digger to needing a good ditch ##gger.