A plea for unity

[Dragonrider]

A Plea for Unity:

Before you gripe at me for sounding like Rodney King (“Why can’t we all get along?”) type of whining, remember, it’s me. I don’t gripe. I bitch.

One of the strengths of the XS is its great support group, embodied in XS11.com and the list. I’m not privy to all the history, but JP seems to be the cohesive member . . . someone who genuinely cares about the XS and its riders. He produces and maintains a kick-ass website (xs11.com again), and managed the list.

So now he moves us a bit forward, or backward depending on your view, with the forum. It has its advantages. It has its disadvantages.

One of my gripes with the Yahoo list concerned off-topic posts. I read ‘em, I make ‘em, but they frequently irritate others. I like ‘em mainly because there are only so many times you can rehash an oil thread. I like to get to know the folks, not just the bikes.

The forum addresses this. You have the tech areas, the ride report areas, the rally planning/announcement areas, and the member’s lounge for off-topic posts. There is even an area to discuss (gasp) other bikes! It emails you if you want about any thread you are “subscribed” to, which you do by replying to a thread OR clicking “subscribe”.

There are some nice search functions once you play around a bit.

Another of my gripes with the Yahoo list was the pop-ups and click-through ads. They have doubled the frequency of these now. They are more annoying then ever if you use the yahoo web for the list. For you low bandwidth guys, I dialed in on my modem last night and played with both the forum and the yahoo list. About the same. I liked the email from the yahoo list, but it came to my work email (high bandwidth). Just to test I forwarded it to my Hotmail, accessed it over the dialup modem, and it was actually slower than the forum on the same dialup.

Gawd I love my cable modem.

So . . . JP announces the forum. I admit, I was irritated, as it came with no warning or preamble or whatnot, but instead of giving it a chance . . . instead of having a little faith that JP really does have the best interest of the XS group in mind, immediately a bunch make a new group, and some even sign off. Some join the forum. Me, I do it all, as I want to stay in touch with the entire community. The forum works pretty well, and is a nice resource.

The strength of the community was/is that there is one definitive source for XS information. You got an XS? You need to be here.

Now it is divided. If I have a post that I want the whole community to see, now I would have to post it on the forum, the original yahoo list (xs11) and the new yahoo list (allxs11) as well as plus2. And since I watch all of those, several messages concerning the same topic are often there as others attempt to do what I am attempting – communicating with the entire XS community at once.

Duplication of effort, division of resources. Sure recipe for a fall. Eventually one will become dominant, but in the mean time it costs the entire community by making this excellent resource diffused, spread-out.

There are experts in all areas of the XS here, but now you may not get your question to the right guys, they are on another list.

There are not that many of us (although it is pretty impressive for a 20-year old bike). Let’s keep it together.

Flame away,

CUAgain,
Daniel Meyer
http://cuagain.manilasites.com

[Mike Hart]

Danny, I saw you posted the same msg at yahoo list (where I also posted the reply that follows). Did you also cc allxs11s and Plus2?

Danny, thanks for your thought-out comments.

JP has not only put a lot of work into the xs11 community for a number
of years, he's also put money out of his own pocket into it, and for
that he deserves the thanks of all XSives.

As far as having to check 4 areas, that will be down to 3 soon, sorry
I don't know the date, but at some point sooner rather than later,
this yahoo list will be closed to posts, but still available for its
archive. I only wish yahoo's search feature was better. (Maybe it is
better than I think it is, but their so-called help sites have no info
that I can find.)

While there are a small number of people who can't or won't join the
forum for whatever reason, it seems most active posters on this list
have indeed joined the forum. Someone on allxs11s pointed out to me
that many of those subscribers are also forum members. Like you, some
people just want it all :>) He also pointed out that it currently is
more like the Members Lounge forum than the XS/XJ Technical Discussion
forum.

xs11.com has long been a great technical resource, and the move to the
forum has increased that present fact and future possibility
exponentially. Almost all (soon it will be all) the tech info on the
web site is now found in the Maintenance, Repair, Modification and
other Tech forums, and it is in the works to make that an even more
attractive and easy-to-use feature. I've noticed that at any given
time, there may be even more Guests than Members viewing the Forums,
and frequently they are looking at Tech forums.

Some division is inevitable - that happened before when the Plus list
was born, but as far as I know, the subscriber lists had significant
overlap. Opinion: the as you say 'dominant' player will be the one
with the most technical expertise available.

As I understand it (see the original 2 part announcement and the
upcoming (don't know when) Membership details), when the Forum moves
to an optional fee structure (to generate enough funds to actually pay
the costs of the site), only the Members Lounge and Other Bike
Discussion forums will not be available to Guests and non-paying
members. That leaves a LOT, MOST, available for free, whether you
register as a member or not.

And therein, perhaps, is the division you warn of - if people don't
want to be financial contributors, then for some, chatting and talking about
other bikes will perhaps find a home somewhere else, Plus2, allxs11s,
either, both, something else, or eventually... who knows?

While I am not happy to lose any XSive, we've already lost *many*
really good wrenches (and good people) due to the diffuse and
sometimes too chatty nature of the mail list. I'm hoping the Forum
format will make it easier for those people to participate in the area
they prefer without having to subject themselves to things they find
irrelevant.

and I thought this was going to be brief... HA!

[jakal92]

Plus2???

Where can I find this Plus2 list?????

I have seen many references to it, but can't seem to find it anywhere.

Is it for XS's or all bikes?

for now,
jakal92

PS: what happened to Plus1?


<Plus2, allxs11s,
either, both, something else, or eventually... who knows? >

<I would have to post it on the forum, the original yahoo list (xs11) and the new yahoo list (allxs11) as well as plus2>

[Dragonrider]

Plus2 list is http://groups.yahoo.com/group/XS11Plus2/

What happened to plus1? Not sure, before my time. Sounds like some folks got bitchy and it got killed. Not much XS related over there any more . . . some interesting flame wars sometimes though

[Wayne]

--- In xs11@y..., "skids50261" <sidskids@e...> (Yahoo list) wrote:
> As for unity, Danny, the different websites exist for us. We do not
> exist for them. If only one is to ultimately survive, it will do so
> because of its appeal: appearance, effeciency, and user
> friendliness. You can bet that if it only works on hot rod computer
> equipment, many of us will just not prefer it. I use it, for now,
> when I have the time.

I agree that everyone should be able to choose the format they prefer. That is freedom, and I'm all about freedom.
BUT
I don't understand why so many think they have to have a 'hotrod computer' to get on the forum. At home, I have an older PC with a dialup 56k connection. It takes longer to get thru the Yahoo popups and clickthrus than it does to open the forum and start reading.
The forum is not some monster website with technology that only the Pentagon can open. If you can get to any site on the web you can get to the forum and with ease.
I fear that many have attempted to go to the forum only briefly and didn't allow all the graphics to load to your computers. If your there long enough (just a few moments) the images will load to your computer, then next time you return the site comes up lickety split. If you still have problems then like I've said before, you can turn off the 'view pictures' in your browser options. (If you need help with this feel free to contact me off list.)

Again, I'm not putting anyone down here. I agree with Skids statement that 'the list exists for us not us for the list' but we do exist for each other, in the list that is. That is what a brotherhood is all about. I will miss anyone who doesn't make the switch when this list is closed. I hope you all come over. Everyone form the expert MC mechanic down the 'im just a guy with a motorcycle' (thats me) is important to this group.

I admire JP et.al. for their vision for the XS11.com site and for XS11 riders in general. I have had conversations with JP and I can tell you he wants the best for the group and that is what the forum is all about. I have caught that vision, believing that this group is one of the best MC groups out there. I mean really, have you seen some of the other MC groups web sites? Few are as well thought out and organized as XS11. I am a member of the TDR (Turbo Diesel Register) this is a group of Turbo Diesel owners that has more than 13,000 members world wide. This is a top notch org. and we are as much, if not more organized, on XS11.com, as they are. Very impressive IMHO.

[madbiker]

I agree with a lot of what he says in his post,but with this many people belonging to the yahoo list you can not make them all happy at the same time. I understand not wanting to leave anyone out ,but you can only do so much. Imet J.P., Gary,and a feww other at xseast this year and I think thier tring to move the list a head

[CA.XSer]

Ther was a sign at a car wash here in town years ago that had a saying I thought was great, and have not forgot it.


You can please some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time, but not all the people all the time.

[Mike Hart]

That is commonly attributed to Abraham Lincoln, who also said, a bit on topic here:

People who like this sort of thing will find this the sort of thing they like.
Abraham Lincoln, in a book review

If this is coffee, please bring me some tea; but if this is tea, please bring me some coffee.
Abraham Lincoln

also kind of on topic, Groucho Marx said "I wouldn't belong to any club that would have me as a member."