106c.i./1800cc not nuff.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey HondaKid,

The Problem with the driveshaft is there are 2 power direction turns...first the middle drive from across the bike 90 degrees to the driveshaft, then again at the Final Drive 90 degrees again to spin the wheel. So even though it's solid metal connections....gears/shafts, etc, there is LOSS of power due to the differential type power transitions....I think it's been quoted to up to 10% or so. WIth the Belt, the power direction is going the same direction, albeit it does get changed from Cw to CCW if it's the XS11 that's been converted to chain/belt drive...I don't know what direction a Hardley spins??

T.C.

[jetmechmarty]

Let's see. The diff is on the left side. I think the jacking comes.from the wheel trying to climb the ring gear, does it not? Stiff springs and good dampers alleviate it whether or not my theory is correct. Honda GoldWing, BMW, and Moto Guzzi have the diff on the right. Does that not push the wheel down under accelleration?

[Bonz]

Never have I read or seen anything to say a shaft drive gives better traction than a belt or chain. 35 years of motorcycle magazines, comparison testing of shaft vs chain driven cycles of all types and haven't seen reference to better traction or anything in the wide world of the Internet.

The XS may give better results compared to other shaft drive cycles because of the engine rotation, but the benefit of reverse rotation is the gyroscopic effect of the crank keeps the front end down. Still would not rival the efficiency of a chain or belt when speaking of the highest percentage of power making it to the ground. Maybe the power loss softens the delivery of power, so traction would theoretically be better in that respect because not as much is making it to the rear wheel.

BMW, Honda Gold Wing, ST1100/1300, others like that have a front to back crankshaft to lessen the inefficiency of engine power traveling across extra gear faces to get to the rear wheel. The XS, 80's vintage in-line 4 cyls of any variety (nighthawks, Suzuki, kawasaki models with shaft drive) relatively speaking are the most inefficient examples of shaft drive, lost a lot of power to the rear wheel from power transferring across gears.

The shaft still has to rotate a specific direction to get forward motion at the hub/wheel, so once it leaves the engine the XS shaft is no different than any other shaft bike.

I love the XS as much as you guys, and would love to see it be true that a shaft of any engine rotation gives better traction than chain or belt. Does anyone have a reference to it as being a true fact?

[je2wheeler]

First real run for Monster

Right after I acquired my Monster and following my (by my words) meticulous restoration, I was a few miles of a military base and desired access to the benefits there of while riding my Monster. This, at the time required a base sticker vehicle pass. To obtain the sticker required attending an Advanced Motorcycle Rider Safety Instruction provided by the base.
Over the years of my time in, I had taken many safety classes to keep my base access. I looked forward to these 4 year requirements on many different rides.
This was the first time on an XS11.
The only mod on my Monster at that time was an ATC fuse box and braded brake lines, otherwise Monster was show room stock.
There were nine Active Duty riders there for the class. All on mostly new bikes. All were huge, bagged and comfy.
Monster looked meek next to all that painted bloated plastic. While we were kicking tires before the class started, I was answering question about Monster. I pointed out the innovations of the XS11’s in the late 1970’s. They were most impressed that the XS11 was the first production bike to break the 11 second ¼ mile and the SF held the land speed record for production stock for a year or so.
The head instructor told the class, he had an alphabet Harley with all the Screaming Eagle mods and is “rated at 160hp”. I asked him how much all that extra HP had cost him. In a most unprofessional manner, He challenged me to contest after the class.
Now this was while I was living in the center of the San Joaquin Valley. I’m talking flat strait roads where drag racing was born in the 50’s. ‘American Graffiti’ was filmed there for a reason.
We met after the class on a well known bit of blacktop. I was not all that experienced of launching from a standing start with any XS11 much less Monster.
The instructor said he did not want to subject his custom Harley to the stress of a full-on launch off the line and wanted to do a 20mph roll-on.
I wrenched for Yamaha in the late 70’s when the E hit the show room. We sold many SX11s over those summers and I test road at least 10 of them for the new customers. By the book, I went through the gears for the ride, BUT for my last own check was to slow to 20 mph in second and nail it! If the XS lofted the front wheel, I was satisfied.
Monster and that Harley did that 20mph roll-on. Monster lofted her front wheel for a few yards and we went through the gears. I tucked in under the paint just to make sure. As I passed the 1/4 mark, I got out of Monster and checked the mirrors. No Harley behind me. I did a Bat Turn and went back to the group at the start. No Harley.
The group were jumping up and down and banging me on the back telling me when my front wheel went up and nearly instantly I was several lengths ahead of the Harley, the instructor stopped did a u-ie and blasted past them and was gone.
Over the years and miles, Monster as been there for me even with my goofs, she brought me home.
Every time I walk into the garage, I give Monster a pat of thanks. Every time I hit that starter button, my heart goes - WOW!

[3Phase]

Marty, it doesn't matter which side of the swingarm has the final drive or which side of the ring gear gets the teeth. The pinion has to try to climb the front of the ring gear unless you want the bike to go in reverse.

Bonz,

Compared to other shaft driven bikes the engine rotation doesn't give the XS more traction but it does help keep it from wallowing like a garbage scow against a Warp-driven Starship. Since the XS is a little more stable then, yes, you have a little more useable traction.

Chain and belt drives are totally different animals. Chain and belt drives deliver power more efficiently to the rear wheel but a shaft drive is a lot less likely to try to gnaw your leg off when it's break time.

.

[Prisoner6]

Compared to other shaft driven bikes the engine rotation doesn't give the XS more traction but it does help keep it from wallowing like a garbage scow against a Warp-driven Starship.

Go to the 38:04 mark and watch for at least 30 seconds ... wait for it ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOqN9kL1504

[Prisoner6]

The belt drive is a more efficient means of transferring power ...

Chain and belt drives deliver power more efficiently to the rear wheel ...

how is rubber better means of transferring power than solid metal??? im not talking about the tire slipping, im talking about how a belt wears faster than splined metal shaft, and the belt slips.

Seriously, though ...

Hondakid,

These quotes from Bonz and 3Phase are beyond contestation ...

Belt drive is, without question, a more efficient means of delivering power to the rear wheel ... Period. (Also, read TopCat's post in this thread)

And, in your quote above, you allude to both efficiency and longevity ... two completely different things.

As far as longevity ... yes, a properly cared for shaft drive system on a factory-new XS11 will outlast a belt in a belt drive system. But consider this:

I have a friend who rides a Kawasaki Vulcan 1700 Vaquero, which has belt drive. He purchased the bike new, and has racked up 80,000+ miles.

The bike still has the original belt ... and when I questioned him, he told me he has never experienced "belt slippage".

And I have other friends with Japanese bikes that have belt drive ... "zero problems", they tell me.

80,000 miles from a belt sounds p-r-e-t-t-y good to me ...

I don't know about H-D's belt drive systems ... but I wouldn't hesitate for one moment to purchase a bike from the Big 4 that had belt drive.

[webbcraft2150]

Belt, chain , rope, shaft drive. It didn't matter. My 34 year old bike with organized leak induction system (carbs), OHC, backwards running engine, with fairing, bags, sacked out shocks and a blonde on the back prevailed in a demonstration of straight line horizontal acceleration The topic has however generated some very interesting conversation. Did I mention I run 10w-40?

[3Phase]

Did I mention I run 10w-40?

Be careful! You can't use 10w-40 if you put 41psi in your synthetic rubber tires!

.

[ekim]

Picture(s) of the blonde holding the oil can - or it didn't happen.

Belt, chain , rope, shaft drive. It didn't matter. My 34 year old bike with organized leak induction system (carbs), OHC, backwards running engine, with fairing, bags, sacked out shocks and a blonde on the back prevailed in a demonstration of straight line horizontal acceleration The topic has however generated some very interesting conversation. Did I mention I run 10w-40?

[DiverRay]

Picture(s) of the blonde holding the oil can - or it didn't happen.

I concur!!

[Poprock]

I love these stories. Thanks for the entertainment. You can go to Egypt and see an ancient wonder of the world, or you can hop on your 11 and ride one. There's lots of drool-worthy machines these days, but every time I'm riding Kong I just smile, enjoy and think of all the money I didn't have to spend to have this much fun.

[TopCatGr58]

Never have I read or seen anything to say a shaft drive gives better traction than a belt or chain. 35 years of motorcycle magazines, comparison testing of shaft vs chain driven cycles of all types and haven't seen reference to better traction or anything in the wide world of the Internet.

I love the XS as much as you guys, and would love to see it be true that a shaft of any engine rotation gives better traction than chain or belt. Does anyone have a reference to it as being a true fact?

Hey Bonz,

I could've swore I had read it in one of the bike magazine reviews we have on our site, but just re-reviewed them...mostly the EARLY year ones, and couldn't find anything.

So....I'll just have a little debate fun.

During acceleration, inertial forces put more weight load on the rear of the bike as the rear wheel starts to push the bike forward...so the weight of the rider/bike is pushed more onto the rear wheel.

With Chain/Belt Drives...the pulling/torque force and rotation of the chain/belt is along the top portion of the rear wheel/hub/sprocket....and so there is a tendency to PULL the rear wheel upwards a "bit".

With a shafty, the spline climbing affect pushes the rear of the bike/frame/seat upwards.....against gravity, and also against the inertial forces that are being applied as acceleration is beginning....so you have both the inertial weight of rider/bike being put onto the rear wheel, but also additional downward force of the swingarm pushing the tire against the pavement a little bit more.

So...this is what I feel is behind the "theory" that a Shafty can provide a bit more traction affect than a chain/belt drive.

Now to add a little counter argument with regards to the XS11's vs other shafties....because it's engine rotates CW/reverse...this engine centripetal force combined with the shaft spline climb affect is to "help" keep the front wheel on the ground...but it's that same backwards rotation/torque/centripetal force that "might" actually lessen the weight/inertial forces applied to the rear wheel since it's torque is trying to rotate the frame CCW !?

I'm no engineer so I don't know all of the fancy "math" necessary for performing friction calculations...and even the width of the rear tire and it's contact patch vs. the bike's weight will also contribute to the amount of traction that is generated, not to mention the tires composition. Lots of factors involved for sure. I just know not to crank the throttle too strongly when in a turn, on leaves, dirt, gravel, etc.!

T.C.

[Bonz]

Thanks for verifying in the older articles, TC.

I think when we, as an aging group of dudes, read as much stuff over the years as we have and follow cycling as a whole fairly closely, any major tendency for a shaft drive to give better traction all else equal, would stick out as being repeated from every source that compares or evaluates bikes. I am just saying' I haven't heard that in my travels about any shaft dive bikes, other than this forum as it relates to the XS.

Like has been said, shaft drive advances in technology have eliminated/reduced jacking. The XS does a great job by it's design to keep that minimized, but eliminating jacking doesn't add traction, it simply doesn't lose as much of what it already has relative to other shaft bikes potentially, and therefore back to what I have shared before... I don't believe there is more traction with a shaft drive over a belt or chain.

What the XS does with it's shaft drive is keep the front end down by engine/drivetrain design and that may be getting related to the traction thing.

[Prisoner6]

My 34 year old bike with organized leak induction system (carbs), OHC, backwards running engine, with fairing, bags, sacked out shocks and a blonde on the back prevailed in a demonstration of straight line horizontal acceleration

Picture(s) of the blonde holding the oil can - or it didn't happen.