End of Season--Ready for Bed

[MarkD]

I think it's time to put my XS to bed for the winter. I am changing the oil ( Castrol GTX 20-50), final drive oil, and will attempt a good cleaning of the carbs (again),since the choke circuit seems it won't enrich the rack on cold starts. I am attempting to put some new pics here, too, since I customized the mufflers.The new ones have leaves in the pics. I cut the flared end from the tips, and added a 9 inch exhaust tip onto each end. I still may get Emgo dunstall style mufflers, and sell these. They are a little loud, but they do sound pretty manly. Not sure yet.


http://s1282.photobucket.com/user/FU...?sort=3&page=1

Snow predicted for Tuesday.....

[Garagamus]

I like'em. My cafe project has currently got the Mac 4 into 1 pipe and these might give me a different look.(since the current system is really close to the ground), what are you looking for for the pipes? I'm trying to collect all the parts I need for the standard now before its inevitable winter tear down and rebirth. Already have the 8" round headlight, gaiters, clubmans, progressive springs, tail light, and a new bump seat in the works, probably a complete color change as well.

[MarkD]

Not sure if I'll let them go, but I'll let you know, G-mus. I'll check out the Emgos and see what the deal is. Meanwhile, I'll be putting a ceramic heater in my garage and tearing carbs down, and installing new fork seals, too. Always something to work on since it's my first season with this scoot.

[Garagamus]

I hear ya, got this one in August and its already been through two color changes and a whole mess of mechanical clean up. Medicinal and therapeutic though, especially with this forum, I don't get far without getting a question answered and starting all over again doing it the right way...lol

[MarkD]

I've seen the pics of your cafe'. It is a real good looking bike, especially your engine paint job. I would like a project bike, but the time involved is a factor. Would really love to get a '74 RD350, but it would physically be too small for me.

[Bonz]

Winter storage question, devils advocate...

So what's the big problem with leaving existing oil in the crankcase over the winter if you aren't close to an oil and filter change?

I hear the info about acids eating away at things, but reality is the oil in crankcases during the riding season has the same acids and stuff in it, it doesn't come and go with each ride.

From the moment we start riding in the spring, if we get through 6 months with the same oil in the engine, clutch the pearls, we should expect to have that engine plum near etched to death by the acid that has been in our engine for most of the season.

Additives are additives, they protect and neutralize the nasties. By oil analysis I know oil after 2500 miles has plenty of them left, sure viscosity is down, but that isn't at debate here. Any oil is going to run down to the crankcase after a few months, so it's a moot point about thicker vs thinner IMO.

So why would oil with even 1500 miles on it be any more prone to casue acid problems from sitting for a few months vs. having the stuff in the engine day in and day out for 6-8 months a year and changing at a regular interval?

[motoman]

So what's the big problem with leaving existing oil in the crankcase over the winter if you aren't close to an oil and filter change?

I hear the info about acids eating away at things, but reality is the oil in crankcases during the riding season has the same acids and stuff in it, it doesn't come and go with each ride.

From the moment we start riding in the spring, if we get through 6 months with the same oil in the engine, clutch the pearls, we should expect to have that engine plum near etched to death by the acid that has been in our engine for most of the season.

Additives are additives, they protect and neutralize the nasties. By oil analysis I know oil after 2500 miles has plenty of them left, sure viscosity is down, but that isn't at debate here. Any oil is going to run down to the crankcase after a few months, so it's a moot point about thicker vs thinner IMO.

So why would oil with even 1500 miles on it be any more prone to casue acid problems from sitting for a few months vs. having the stuff in the engine day in and day out for 6-8 months a year and changing at a regular interval?

Why Hi there Howard!........Good to hear from you, and still can throw a little debate in the mix. BTW, good question, as 20+yr. old barn find time capsules seem to survive having been forgotten.

[Bonz]

Hey motoman, good to hear from you too.

Your barn find scenario only bolsters what I am saying, thanks for chiming in!

20+ years is a different deal in a lot of other areas of the bike being fit, but after flushing the engine out they seem to run just fine, eh? Where's all the acid damage, darn it!?

[fredintoon]

So what's the big problem with leaving existing oil in the crankcase over the winter if you aren't close to an oil and filter change?

Hi Howard,
there's some as reckons "why not?" and others as reckons "them acids will sit and fester over winter because she ain't running to keep 'em stirred up."
Who's right? I dunno.
I do know that oil is cheap and that doing an oil and filter change as part of the bike's winter prep will mean there's one less thing for me to worry about.

[Bonz]

In fairness, I ride my bikes over the winter and at most 4-6 weeks goes by between rides. Sometimes I'll get out weekly or at least every other week since I have 3 bikes to exercise.

I have no qualms about 6 weeks of sitting, if acid and other stuff is gonna do it's thing, and it shouldn't if my oil is in good shape additive-wise, it doesn't wait until the 3 or 4 month mark. I'm more worried about my battery.

I've yet to see a used oil analysis at even 2500 miles showing the additive packages that protect against acid and other stuff in modern oils depleted.

This winterizing ritual may have been borne out of necessity back in the dark ages of oil, oil is so much better and advanced these days that I think we are perpetuating what is now an urban legend, simply becuase of the oil quality these days.

Additives are sacrificial by design, and if there is plenty left, then they are there to do a job and don't just quit doing the job anymore when sitting over the winter vs. sitting in the crankcase between rides. Keep in mind, acid and other nasties don't "grow" over the winter, it's in there before you shut 'er down, but rememeber it's being neutralized by additives, so they really aren't there, per se.

Which brings me back to the start... In my estimation, which is probabluy pissing a lot of guys off right about now...

If the additive is there, and has done it's job when you are riding, it's not going to magically go to heck in a hand basket just sitting there for 3-5 months unless the oil was shot to begin with.

[MarkD]

Hey Bonz and everyone, I'll weigh in on the oil additives, acidic build-up over winter, etc. I'm not a big 'change the oil before every winter' guy, and never have been ( lazyness?). My idea is: if the bike or boat hasn't been ridden/used much ( say it's only been ridden 1,000 miles, or the boat only taken out 2 X this season), I wouldn't change the oil after such little usage. I've actually gone 2 or 3 seasons without an oil change a few times, due to lack of use. The real reason I'm changing the oil now, is that I hadn't changed any lubes in the bike at all since I got her on the road in June. I figured the PO may not have done any oil changes, etc. for a long time, and I wanted to do it now so I know it's done. Good thing I did, as the drained oil looked very dark. I did change the final drive lube, too, and it also was dark as heck. Middle gear oil, bright and clean, so I stopped it back up, and added some to correct level.
Usually, I'll go 3-4,000 miles before an oil change, and I figure like you, Bonz, the oil should stay good to go, even if it sits idle in the crankcase. I'm glad there are like minded riders out there, as it confirms my opinion that oil doesn't go bad from sitting a while, especially newer design oil.
I did drain one fork, and the oil is not looking too good, so new seals and some new oil is going there, too.
As I write this, we are getting some crappy snow here in N. Michigan, so for sure, bedtime for the old gal.

[Bonz]

Amen on that!

[Jerry]

I generally change oil and filter before winter even if I have not put 3K or so miles on since the last change. I do this mostly because oil sits on bearings and internal parts; it does not all drain into the sump. Theoretically, as long as your additives are not used up, it should make no difference how old or how many miles the oil has on it. I just feel better knowing there is fresh stuff in there and I don't have to change oil in the spring when I get rolling again.

My garage is not heated so I don't have to worry about condensation build up. When I do ride on some warmer winter days I ride long enough to bring the oil up to normal operating temperature, say 30 miles or so at a minimum.

I rode to work last Thursday but morning temps are consistently below freezing so commuting is probably over for the season. However, average day temps are just under 60 deg F so afternoon rides are still viable for a while yet.

Any more I don't like to ride unless temps are getting into the upper 30 deg F range. 40 deg F and dry is still OK...