Honda Clutch system

[DGXSER]

MY 2000 Honda Accord is a 5 speed. I always liked manual transmissions, until this one. The other day I am driving it and I notice that it gets hard to shift into gear. If I hit the clutch again it shifts easily, but if you leave your foot on the pedal for any length of time, Like a slow curve, or stop light, it will not go in gear. I could also feel the pedal drifting back up slowly, not pushing right up when it has been held down for a little bit.

So I made the determination it felt like the clutch master was leaking fluid past the seals. Ordered a new master cylinder and got it installed. Now the fun begins. Trying to bleed this bloody system out. So far the clutch pedal just goes to the floor and right back up.

I took off the slave cylinder, cleaned it up, reassembled, tried to bleed, nothing. I have a Mity-Vac and it has not been able to pull the fluid through to get the clutch pedal to presurize.

so I took the slave off again, put my thumb over the end of the line and had my son pump the clutch pedal. It builds pressure and shot fuid out past my thumb. Put the line back on the slave, and now no pedal pressure. It just barely starts to move the slave.

Any other suggestions on getting this thing to bleed is greatly appreciated.

[CaptonZap]

Sounds like the a 95 Ranger clutch.
It had to be bled beore installation, so the cylinder could be positioned so that all the air could be allowed to bubble up to a bleed port or MC.
Bleed, then install cylinder.
PITA CZ
CZ

[DGXSER]

Well I am now about convinced I got a crap MC. I have bled and bled and bled this thing. The fluid coming out when I bleed it looks nice and clean, as opposed to the black crap that was in the system. So I am getting fluid from the reservior and not what was in the line.

I open the bleeder, son pushes clutch pedal, goes right to the floor, and fluid slowly comes out the bleeder. After 15 minutes of this, I took the slave off, let it open all the way out, and you can watch the fluid in the reservior drop. Push the piston back in, and watch the fluid in the reservior go back up. Repeated this ten times, slowly movign cylinder. Same result, no air bubbles. So either the line is full of air with fluid on each side of it, which I doubt since the fluid is clean coming out the slave. Or the MC can not build pressure and has leaky seals. At least that is my theory. I just hate the thought of pulling the dang thing out again!

[bikerphil]

Couple of thoughts...

Did you try using the mighty vac to bleed? Ok, I see you have done this.

You took apart the slave cyl to clean it out, are you positive it was assembled back correctly?

Maybe try the gravity bleed method, put a rubber hose on the bleed screw and the other end in a container. Make sure the master is full, open the bleed screw and let it drain out, refilling the MC before it runs out.

[SFerinTEXAS]

have not had a hyd slave myself but. When I worked with a MB truck dealership the common approach to bleeding the slave system was to push the slave cylinder piston rod in and out and bleed it up to the m/c. no venting required. Push air up, fluid comes down. repeat May help

[DGXSER]

Well, the system does not seem to gravity feed. No fluid comes out with the hose on the slave bleeder with the bleeder open, which is lower than the MC. The hos eis also lower than the MC, and the catch bottle is on the ground.

I have now pushed easily the entire reservior of fluid or more through the system. I get nothing but fluid, no air coming out the slave. The procedure I am using is open bleeder, push pedal, close bleeder, release pedal. The fluid is clean and clear and I can watch the MC reservior drop. Yet, it will nto push the slave piston out to work the clutch. I do not see how I could still have air in the lines.

It almost has to be a faulty MC.

[650mark]

you may, indeed, have a bad m/c. when i had the brakes redone on my car they ended up replacing the m/c twice 'cause the 1st new one was bad. also, fwiw, my brand new fuel pump was also bad and they had to put in another new one. now 2 years later all is working well. lots of low quality auto parts being sold these days. good luck

[buffalo]

I'm not positive on how your Accord is set up without seeing one lately but does the master cylinder sit at an angle where the fitting that the line goes in is at the highest point? I have found on some cars the master leans down when mounted and air gets trapped next to the piston and won't get pushed out the line to bleed. I have found on these cars the only way to bleed them is to loosen the mounting bolts enough so I can tilt the master so the line fitting is at the highest point then bleed.
If you are sure you have all the air out it does sound like a bad master. It has been too long, and my memory too short, since I did a Honda but I seem to recall they can be a PITA to get all of the air out. If you have to pull it out again I suggest bench bleeding before installing the new one. Do this by hand with the cylinder angled so the line fitting is at the highest point then plug the port and install the master. hook the line up last and bleed at the slave. Also, make sure when it is mounted you have a little free play in the rod to pedal joint if it is adjustable. If the rod is adjusted too tight the piston will not return far enough to allow fluid to pass from the reservoir.
I have in my years as a mechanic found plenty of new defective parts, and the quality of replacement parts these days seems to be getting really bad, so it is possible you got a bad one.

[DGXSER]

One thing that seems counter to the concept of a bad MC is that when I put my thumb over the line removed form the slave, my son steps on the pedal and it will pop my thumb off the line. (Brake fluid taste nasty!!) When I bleed it, I get nothing but good clean fluid, and you can watch the fluid in the reservoir drop.

The MC sits pretty much level, the end with the line attached may sit a touch up hill from the firewall.it does sit slightly cocked off center.

The setup of this thing makes it almost impossible to bench bleed and install. The strut tower is inches in front of the MC. so you have to pull and wiggle and turn it to get it in or out. On top of that, there is zero room for a wrench of any type to get to the line. So Honda designed this push in fitting to adapt from the line to the MC, gets held in with a pin. You have to pull the pin, then convince this fitting to come out of the MC. Then move that out of the way and get the line from the reservoir out of the way as you snake the MC out of the hole. Install is reverse. I am not even sure you could use a crows foot on the line fitting. So I am not sure how I could seal that opening to get the MC down in position without dumping the fluid that it was primed with.

I went to my local Honda shop as I needed a part for the CRV, spoke with them and they informed me there is a TSB on this series of Accords that the slave is problematic and to replace it. So I have a new slave coming. If that fixes it, great. If not, I will start with taking the MC back out and returning it.

[buffalo]

there is a rubber line (like a brake hose) in the line going from the body to the trans.... clamp that hose shut and step on the clutch. You should have a rock solid pedal at the top, very little movement. If not, there is air or some other problem with the master. If you do have a high hard pedal, the problem is down at the slave.

[Hepcat]

One thing that can help is to really slam down the clutch pedal. Sometimes air bubbles get stuck to the sides of the cylinders/lines (think bubbles in a freshly poured glass of Coke) and stomping on the pedal (one time, then bleed screw) and you might just hear/see air bubbles come out of the slave.

That was the key for my Ranger.

[conquest87tsi]

Thanks for the advise guys. May be a while until it is warm enough to give it a go.

[DGXSER]

Thanks Fellas, I have a new slave for it now, will install over the weekend and see if it helps. If not will try the trick of clamping the rubber line to check the MC. And the rest of the suggestions.

[DGXSER]

After a long tour of Nothern Indiana and Illinois, I finally got some time this morning to work on the Accord. Removed the old slave cylinder and installed the new one, after bench bleeding the slave.

Then had my son step on the pedal while I held my thumb over the end of the line and bled the air out of the line. Again, as before, him stepping on the pedal got to where I could not hold my thumb and it spewed brake fluid out around my thumb.

Carefully put the line in place keeping my thumb over it until the last second. Tighten it up and first step on the pedal my son says "WHOAAA", the piston moves about 2" now. I fugure that is the prescribed movement, and the car shifts fine.

So, it would appear the slave was bad as well.