New member with a "new" '79 Special and a to-do list

[fredintoon]

Oh! I also need new brake pads. The front pads were worn at funny angles (mis-aligned forks/rotors/wheel?). The back set looks fine but since I'm this far in, I might as well spend the money on replacing them too. Are there any preferred brands?

Hi Doug,
the Special's front pads are SUPPOSED to be tapered that way!
Mr Stupid didn't know that until the new ones arrived by which time the garbage truck had taken the perfectly good take-offs away to the dump.
Other unlikely thing a new XS11 owner may not know, the engine turns backwards.

[WMarshy]

When you replace the cam chain tensioner: Take off your valve cover, loosen the bolts to your cam chain tensioner, but do not remove yet. Make sure you have a wedge that will slide down the chain from the top in between the chain and the cylinder head to keep it tight as you pull out the tensioner. If you drop the chain it may slip off the crank sprocket down in the engine case which could cause severe headache. Good luck.

Thats the first time I've ever read anyone recommend that... if done on the center stand and per the tech tip on here there is no problem. Several people have done it without the wedge you recommend and have had no problems. I suppose it wouldnt hurt any but its not absolutely necessary...

[Yard Dogg]

Sometimes you never know how much slack there could be. These chains are designed to be put on with a master link, and could be realigned by using the timing marks, I just figure why take the chance?

[gryphon51]

I've seen some info searching through the forum about putting a kick start on the bike. Mine has the shaft coming out of the crank case and a rubber cap over the top of it.

there should be a wing nut just below the battery, that is the cover for the kick starter lever.

it hides in there till you need it, you may need a 19MM wrench to put it on.

[CaptonZap]

there should be a wing nut just below the battery, that is the cover for the kick starter lever.

it hides in there till you need it, you may need a 19MM wrench to put it on.

Nope, no wrench needed.
The kick start lever has a spring loaded ball bearing, sort of like the spring ball detent in your ratchet handle drive, that is in the hub of the lever, and that goes into the dimple on the shaft sticking out of the case. Which explains the cover that goes on that end of the lever when you put it back in the frame. If that detent ball fills up with grime and rust, the ball might get stuck, making it hard to put the lever on the shaft. CZ

[DouglasVB]

I found the kick start lever tonight. That's a neat trick that Yamaha did! I think I might pick up a kick start lever from an XS850 to put on so it is always in place. Once in a while, you just have to kick the bike to life

Good thing I didn't buy any new pads yet! I looked at some photos on the internet and these things look just about brand new. I have receipts from the previous owner that indicates they were all replaced in 2009. Since then I think the bike has done a grand total of 1/4 of a mile (into and out of the back of pickups).

Unfortunately I already removed the cam chain tensioner and have moved the bike around quite a bit (not in gear but the engine still might have turned). No bad noises or anything but I will open up the proper places on the engine and make sure everything is aligned properly. With how easy this bike is to work on (I come from working on PC800s that are fully encased in plastic), I don't think I will have too much trouble aligning everything.

Today the seals arrived for the forks. I did the job after work. The one thing I forgot to do was pressurize the forks to blow the old seals out. Was a real pain in the rear end trying to get those seals out after the fork lowers were already detached from the bike. A heat gun and lots of careful prying did the trick. I slipped Progressive springs in while I was at it. Per what I saw online, I put in a little less than 8 oz of fork oil per fork. These forks were surprisingly easy to rebuild. I also had the new tires mounted and balanced. $25/each at the local motorcycle shop for dynamic balancing.

Tomorrow I will be busy trying to sell two of my motorcycles and helping a friend sell one of his. This weekend I plan to rebuild the brake master and slave cylinders (will wait on SS lines until a later date), lube the final drive splines, reassemble the front and rear wheels, fill up the middle and final drive with proper lube, do the engine oil and replace that filter, replace the air filter, and if the seals come (they probably won't), do the cam chain tensioner and check the valve clearances. I *might* go ahead and use some gasket sealer rather than waiting for the proper gaskets to come with the idea that I will go back later to replace them. Oh, also I need to go through the electricals and make sure I have all of my lights working. And when the petcock kits come, I need to do that... hopefully tomorrow they will show up... At a later date I think I will replace the fuse block with a blade fuse style block.

Unless I run into an issue where I can't get shims (the local motorcycle shop is closed all weekend and I don't know if any others in the greater area will be open), I suspect I could have the bike on the road by Monday. Exciting!

Another thing I want to do is try to restore the plastics and tank a bit. It is all original. Any advice on what chemicals or treatments to use that will make them look good without harming them? Also someone used what appears to be sharpie to black out the gold Yamaha and XS11 emblems. Need to figure out how to get it back to normal.

Cheers!

Douglas

PS: I have taken a few photos. Don't think it will show much other than a disassembled and then reassembled bike. I'm not doing anything outlandish this time around. Maybe next time though ;-)

[WMarshy]

Sometimes you never know how much slack there could be. These chains are designed to be put on with a master link, and could be realigned by using the timing marks, I just figure why take the chance?

Actually, OEM original cam chains didn't come with a master link but replacement chains did. You can still find some without but then you have to brake the chain and get a master link or if your crank is out then no problem...

Since you moved the bike around with the tensioner out I would recommend when your ready to reinstall it that you put the bike on the center stand remove your tank then head cover and shine a light down the chain galley and make sure the chain isnt off to one side of the crank sprocket. In the future, when ever you remove the cam chain tensioner make sure you put the engine on the T mark per the timing wheel under the engine cover on the left. Also, as stated above the engine turns clockwise looking at the wheel. If you use the pad removal tool you will have to rotate the engine in both directions per the manual even though it doesnt say that exactly... any questions give us a shout.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Marshy,

Just a little correction, for checking cam chain tension and R&R of unit, bike should be on the "C" mark for Cam chain. The "T" mark will then be used later when you rotate the crank/cams to verify that the cam timing is correct. He will probably already have the valve cover off, so he can FIRST rotate to the "T" mark to verify the valve timing is correct, then rotate around to "C" mark for the R&R of the tensioner. I would highly suggest that he put the tensioner back IN the bike to take up the chain slack prior to trying to rotate the crank/cams anymore.

Again, because you/we can't be sure of just how much slack there will be in the cam chain, Yard Dogg's suggestion to help keep the tension on the chain prior to removing the tensioner seems to be a good an prudent one. I had suggested slowly rotating the exhaust cam CW with a wrench while slowly loosening the CCT housing bolts and removing the CCT to take up the excessive chain slack that could be present once the CCT is removed, and that it may help prevent the chain from dropping around the crank sprocket and skipping a tooth. The exhaust cam only needs to be rotated enough to take up the slack, not so much to cause the crank or other cam to rotate!

I didn't go back to the beginning, but if you haven't done the carbs, you'll want to do them. If you've had fuel leaking into the airbox, then it's not so much the petcocks....but yes they were leaking, but also the carbs float needle valves/seats were not sealing and allowing it to leak. IF they are working right, you would not know that you have leaky petcocks.

Electrical, the grounds, engine to frame behind starter below battery box, as well as battery to frame. The turn signals may not be the socket, but it's ground to frame, often to a large washer INSIDE The fender, lots of dirt/rust, etc., clean these, or even remove and connect the ground to a proper wire on the harness to ground can help prevent recurrence of problem.

T.C.

[Yard Dogg]

You wanna know what? I"m glad my suggestion for the cam chain was excepted, and it is still a good method. Only thing is, it was my 280ZX car that required the wedge, cause it will definitely slip off. I was wrenching on that thing for a solid 7 months and that's why it was fresh in my mind. The last time I did a XS chain, it went well via the service manual instructions, it's still a good practice to keep the slack up though.

[DouglasVB]

Today was both a good and a bad day in the shop. First the good...

• I installed the new auto cam chain tensioner. It took a bit of dremmel action to get the bolt holes to line up but it's installed and functioning properly.
  
  I checked the cam chain to see if it had slipped a tooth. I was very lucky and it had not.
  
  I checked the valve clearances and found that they are all within spec.
  
  I closed up the head cover.
  
  I rebuilt the front master cylinder after much persuasion. It is amazing that the front brakes even functioned! There was a LOT of crud in the system and the master cylinder was basically fused together with grime and gunk. I still need to verify that it is all installed correctly. The diagram in the manual didn't look exactly the same to what my master cylinder had inside.

Now the not so good...

• The front master cylinder needs a new rubber diaphragm. The old one will work temporarily but not in the long term.
  
  When I went to put back on the front axle, I found that the left (when facing the bike from the front) disk rubs ever so slightly on the left fork bottom in the cutout. It's almost like a 1/8" spacer washer is missing. The manuals I have (downloaded from Catatonic Bug's site) appear to have the whole front assembly backwards from mine. The large end of the axle ends up on the left side on my bike. I don't see any evidence of a missing spacer. It's very odd. I'm pretty sure that the disk shouldn't be rubbing on the bottom part of the fork!
  
  The brake caliper pistons for the front brakes are STUCK in the caliper bodies. No amount of blowing in high pressure air, shooting in liquid wrench / WD-40, wiggling the piston back and forth with a vice grip, or anything else I have tried has budged the caliper even a millimeter. I left both calipers soaking in various lubricants in the hopes that it penetrates whatever is making the pistons not come out.
  
  It appears that I ordered the wrong parts for the front brakes. I ordered one K&L 32-1250 and two K&L 32-1605. According to what I saw on Amazon and elsewhere, this should be the correct number. It sure looks though like I should have two of the 32-1250. Can anyone confirm if I am right or if I am going crazy?

I am done working for the day on the bike but will be back at it tomorrow. Hopefully I can get the rear brake assembly rebuilt and but the rear end back together. Until I can get the front wheel back on, I can't change the engine oil. My jack is in the way of the oil filter cover.

Tomorrow I will also rebuild the petcocks (parts should be waiting for me in a mailbox at a friend's house) and see if that solves the leaks. When I observed the leaks prior, I did not see any gas leaking from the carbs. I did see gas coming out of the bottom of the petcocks and when I took one apart, the rubber was pretty well mangled inside!

I'm also going to poke at the electrical system and see if I can't trace down some bad grounds. I've got a spare ground cable kicking around that I might swap in and will make sure everything else looks good.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey there Doug,

Folks have recommended using a grease gun on the calipers to be able to provide the pressure to push the pistons out when AIR won't do it. It's a bit messy though! When I did my rebuild, mine has sat for ~9 years, I used PB blaster, and grasped the pistons around the EDGE and ROTATED the piston around to break it loose, and then slowly applied a pulling pressure along with the rotation to get it out. However, folks have also found additional help with using a heatgun....applied to the caliper housing, helps to expand it and break the corrosion grip.

It took me many web sites before I was able to find a site that showed the K&L part numbers for the rebuild kits. Found that the 32-1605's are the FRONT Special kits, so 2 are needed, but the 32-1250 is the rear, only 1 needed.

As for the front wheel/rotor...I apologize for the lack of photos in the tech tip pictorial I had posted in 2006, I changed my ISP this past year and had those photos linked to my Isp webpage storage, and I lost them when I closed the account. I'll have to re-upload those soon!

Anyways, for getting the rotor within the fork guide, you loosen the fork clamp bolt, you tighten the axle castle nut according to spec, there is a shoulder on the end of the axle that allows the castle nut to tighten to torque. THEN you use a screwdriver or wedge of somesort to pry the right fork tube away from the wheel to center the rotor in the fork guide and then lock it down with the fork clamp bolt.

Glad the cam chain and tensioner went in and was still in time!

T.C.

[DouglasVB]

Hi TC,

Thanks for all the help! It's greatly appreciated.

Does the bleeder connect to a zerk fitting on the grease gun or do I need to track down a fitting that will fit in the banjo bolt side? My buddy who I rent the shop space with happens to have a big grease gun. I should be able to get the parts together that I need tomorrow to force those pistons out. I will try a heat gun, too. When I got the old fork seals out, I had to use a heat gun to get them the last inch.

That's very odd... I have two of the 1605 kits but when I compare them to what is coming off of the front calipers, they look too small. The one 1250 kit looks like it will fit the front piston. I guess I'll find out for sure when I get the pistons all apart... If they are indeed as you say they are (I expect that they will be), then I already have what I need. Otherwise, I have a mystery on my hands

When I rebuilt the forks, I didn't actually remove them from the bike (didn't need to). Should I still loosen the forks on the triple tree in order to try and align the fork guide with the rotor? I'm probably missing something very simple here.

Thanks again!

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Doug,

I haven't done the grease thing, Crazy Steve had suggested this, I think they used a zerk fitting screwed into the bleeder valve hole?

Unless the site I found the K&L parts listings is wrong in it's description of whether they are front or rear and for Special vs. Standard, then you should have the right kits. The Square O-ring will be just a little snug around the piston, and the piston is the same diameter all the way to the outside edge, so you should be able to do a quick test fit of the O-ring just onto the outside edge of the piston, should be slightly snug.

You had to take the lower sliders off to do the seals, it's just the alignment of the right side, you loosen the pinch bolt, pry/slide the fork slider sideways until the rotor is centered, and then retighten the pinch bolt to hold it in position. You shouldn't need to loosen the triple tree clamps, this alignment process at the axle is normal.

T.C.

[DouglasVB]

Hi TC,

I'm just getting ready to head out to my shop for another action-packed day of motorcycle maintenance

The 1605 kits didn't come with the steel retaining rings for the rubber skirt (used on the front calipers) but the 1250 kit did. If it turns out that something is backwards, I will take a photo and post it tonight. The 1605 kits do have the square O-rings that you talk about. Maybe K&L is forgetting the steel retaining rings? Good thing the old ones are still good.

Okay I follow you now on the pinch bolts. According to one of the two manuals I downloaded, those are the bolts at the very top of the forks/triple tree. I did in fact loosen them when I serviced the forks. I'll try that trick first thing when I get out to the shop.

I'll update when I take a break this afternoon or early evening!

[DouglasVB]

Just got back from my shop. I spent a solid 12 hours working on the bike today. The brakes gave me some real trouble. One of the front calipers needed SIGNIFICANT persuasion using a combination of a heat gun, a grease gun, and vice grips. The insides of the calipers didn't look bad but the fluid that came out of the brake systems was GROSS.

As you said, the brake rebuilt kits were correct. The front rebuilt kits are just missing the metal rings. No big deal. I reused the old ones.

I was able to center the disk in the disk cutout on the fork as you said. I never would have thought about prying the fork to the side in order to do that.

I greased the drive shaft both at the U-joint end and the final drive end (required taking off the swingarm which gave me the chance to grease the swingarm bearings). Refilled the final and middle drive with the proper oil.

The rear and front wheel are on the bike. The rear brake is bled and functioning properly. I had to do some surgery on the brake light switches for both master cylinders but they work well now.

The front brakes are being a real PAIN IN THE REAR with trying to bleed them. I am barely getting any response from them. All of the fluid coming out is bubble free. I've nearly gone through a full DOT 3/4 bottle. I've cracked all of the various banjo bolts at both ends and in the middle of the system. Is there a trick to bleeding the front brakes?

I will need to order up the diaphragm for the front master cylinder. It is pretty shot but will be okay for a few weeks while I wait for the replacement part.

The petcock rebuild kits came. I installed them in both the vacuum petcock and the two gas tank manual petcocks. Interestingly, I only needed one kit to do all three petcocks. Reading around online, I expected to need two kits and thus I bought two. Now I have an extra for that distant point in the future where I might need to rebuild it again. Tomorrow I will put the tank on the bike and check for leaks elsewhere. Hopefully the fears of a mandatory carb rebuild party are unfounded.

Tomorrow if I can get the front brakes sorted, I think I can get this thing on the road.