No title?

[jetmechmarty]

I just found this on another forum:

We have all found a forgotten project with a lost or overlooked title and for most of us this is a big problem because with out a title you can't register & legally license you bike. Between my dad & I we have the notary service & all forms the state requires and we can do it all in one day at our local court house. We can provide clear Ohio titles for cars, trucks, & motorcycles 15 years & older all done through my shop.

I would need
VIN#
Make
Model
Year
Mileage

Ohio residents $225 plus 7% tax
out of Ohio $225 & you pay tax in your state when you register it.

http://www.speakers-cycles.com/

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Speaker's Cycles Steubenville, OH

[old_skool]

Way to go Jet!!...you in Italy yet?

[crazy steve]

You want to be careful with these 'title rebuilders' as not all states will accept these as legit. Washington state told me point-blank that titles that come in from a known 'rebuilder' or state that allows that will be rejected out of hand unless you have documentation going beyond the title service to a PO...

[DGXSER]

Very interesting Marty. A bit pricey for a title really, but interesting. I live in Ohio and have corresponded with the Clerk of Courts of the State of Ohio and been told point blank this is not possible, but they must know something the Clerk did not.

[DCII]

Don, they must have different regulations for dealers to get titles on bikes in Ohio than they do for individuals. I know when I purchase bikes from out of state with either an out of state title or bill of sale I have had to get them physically inspected by an Ohio Deputy Registrar who confirms that the VIN # on the bike matches the paperwork before I can get an Ohio title.

[cywelchjr]

You want to be careful with these 'title rebuilders' as not all states will accept these as legit. Washington state told me point-blank that titles that come in from a known 'rebuilder' or state that allows that will be rejected out of hand unless you have documentation going beyond the title service to a PO...

Meaning that an untitled bike from Ca would not be accepted by Wa because Ca DOES allow retitleing a vehicle. They do require going through hoops, and you don't get a completely clear title right away. Even worse, some states done even issue a title for bikes as old as ours, what would a state such as Wa do in a situation like that where there would be nothing more than a registration card and a bill of sale?

[rpgoerlich]

Even worse, some states done even issue a title for bikes as old as ours, what would a state such as Wa do in a situation like that where there would be nothing more than a registration card and a bill of sale?

That's basically what ITS was doing through Maine when I had them do my 77XS750 years ago. I was fortunate I got someone at the Harris County courthouse here that was able to look it up, and showed that the registration was as good as a title for a bike that old in Maine. Then I transferred it into a Texas title(after a year when the Maine plates expired). You'll want to check on the tax implications as they'll try anything to make that buck for the state...

[Rasputin]

Anybody know what it would take to get a Canadian registered bike into the states? All we need here is a bill of sale and if you do not have one you simply make one up. Bill of sale and money equals registration here unless the number shows up as stolen. Just wondering as I am sure more than a few bikes make the cross border trip.

[crazy steve]

Meaning that an untitled bike from Ca would not be accepted by Wa because Ca DOES allow retitleing a vehicle. They do require going through hoops, and you don't get a completely clear title right away. Even worse, some states done even issue a title for bikes as old as ours, what would a state such as Wa do in a situation like that where there would be nothing more than a registration card and a bill of sale?

Cy, if the title is 'clear' (no conditions attached and not a 'rebuilt' title and they claim they do know how to spot those), it's a straight transfer. A 'conditional' title won't be accepted, or only under certain circumstances. A 'bill of sale' state origin requires a notarized bill of sale, full inspection (looking for matching frame/motor numbers mostly, and god help you if they don't match), and a search of the stolen vehicle database; this takes time, so there's a waiting period involved.

If you bring in a 'project', it really gets ugly. Then they require that you show all repairs and replaced parts, and will only accept receipts from licensed businesses (no eBay bits unless it's a state-registered business) for parts/work unless you can prove that the parts are legit like by having a clear title to a parts bike or have photos showing you performed the work. At this point, if the work hasn't been done yet, they'll give you some paper in lieu of a title, then once it's done you bring the vehicle and documentation back for your 'final' to get a 'good' title. There used to be a time limit on this (one year), but I don't know if that's still true.

This is why I won't even attempt to fix anything without a clear title...

[cywelchjr]

Cy, if the title is 'clear' (no conditions attached and not a 'rebuilt' title and they claim they do know how to spot those), it's a straight transfer. A 'conditional' title won't be accepted, or only under certain circumstances. A 'bill of sale' state origin requires a notarized bill of sale, full inspection (looking for matching frame/motor numbers mostly, and god help you if they don't match), and a search of the stolen vehicle database; this takes time, so there's a waiting period involved.

If you bring in a 'project', it really gets ugly. Then they require that you show all repairs and replaced parts, and will only accept receipts from licensed businesses (no eBay bits unless it's a state-registered business) for parts/work unless you can prove that the parts are legit like by having a clear title to a parts bike or have photos showing you performed the work. At this point, if the work hasn't been done yet, they'll give you some paper in lieu of a title, then once it's done you bring the vehicle and documentation back for your 'final' to get a 'good' title. There used to be a time limit on this (one year), but I don't know if that's still true.

This is why I won't even attempt to fix anything without a clear title...

I wonder what they would do if you moved from a state that didn't do titles for older vehicles with a vehicle you already owned with a registration from that state? I'm pretty sure under federal laws governing this they would be required to accept that, but I know that when I got out of the army and moved to Wa back in the 80's they didn't accept my Ca license as a valid license and I had to take the entire written AND driving test again, yet they accepted my Az MC license as a valid license and I only had to take the written for the MC endorsement, go figure. So just because something is SUPPOSED to be a certain way, doesn't mean it actually works that way.

[jetmechmarty]

I'm pretty sure under federal laws governing this they would be required to accept that

Nope! The states are sovereign. I currently own several motorcycles and cars with no titles. I know for a fact that if I had to move to Pennsylvania, I couldn't bring them with me. Your state may vary.

[crazy steve]

Cy, as bad as the Washington system sounds, it's far better than it used to be. At one time, all out-of-state vehicles had to be inspected, and if it wasn't street-drivable as-is, you got trapped into the whole prove-where-you-got-everything deal with full documentation.

It's much simpler now; if you have a clear title, that's all you need; no inspections, etc. The one downside is you can end up paying sales tax on the average blue book value if the vehicle is new and/or popular enough. I bought a '83 Sportster frame w/title (bare; no other parts) and the sales tax was equal what I paid for it as I paid tax on a complete, running bike. I could have gotten that reduced by admitting it was only a frame, but then you have to go through the whole where-did-you-get-that-part documentation thing and it just isn't worth the hassle. Plus ending up with a 'salvage' title if repairs are anything more than minor. The XSs are old enough now, so that doesn't apply to those.

[cywelchjr]

Nope! The states are sovereign. I currently own several motorcycles and cars with no titles. I know for a fact that if I had to move to Pennsylvania, I couldn't bring them with me. Your state may vary.

Having been in the military I know that's not completely true. I'm pretty sure that if you bring a vehicle that is fully and legally registered in one state that does not issue a title for that particular vehicle, the state that you have moved to MUST accept that states documentation. All bets are off however on a vehicle that is not in a currently registered and running condition, then each state can indeed do as they please. It's these kind of situations where things get tricky though, and some of the rules were made specifically to protect military personnel, but with some exceptions do not apply only to them. One of the rules has to to with titles, due to restrictions sometimes placed on titles, if you have to move with a vehicle that is financed, you may not be able to title it in the state you have moved to, and may be required to keep it titled in the state you bought it in, but also be required to register it in the state you have moved to. There are specific federal regulations that govern this, as that is a specific federal function, to manage relationships between states. The rule is referred to as the 2/3rds rule. 2 of 3 things must be from the same state. Your drivers license, the vehicle registration, and the title of the vehicle, where this most often comes in is for military persons of course, as they often retain their home state driver's license, but do run into a problem if they finance a car and then get stationed in yet another state as then they typically MUST get a local drivers license if the finance co will not arrange to move the title to that state.

BTW, in some cases such as this, you MIGHT have to get an attorney involved to force the state to see reason, which may or may not be worth it, especially if there is another state that will let you register AND title the vehicle there before you go the the state with the head up their butt.

[tom clisham]

Illinois

Illinois will accept whatever is legal in the state you're bringing vehicle from.They will then issue a clear Illinois title. Been there done that.

[cywelchjr]

As I said, IF legally registered and on the road in the state you came from, the state you move to does have to take whatever the state you came from as proper proof of ownership. This does ONLY apply to a currently registered vehicle though. Anything not currently registered this does NOT apply to, they each state can do whatever they please, although I'm pretty sure that even if the reg is expired, if it's already in YOUR name, they will take it, it's the transferring of said reg in the process of coming from another state that they don't have to do. In those cases it's always best to have the person bring it into the state and get it registered and titled in the state before transferring it to you. Either that or you go there and get it registered and such in your name there. That's why I wouldn't try to do a none title bike across state lines, at least within the state it CAN be done, but having done it, I know how painful it can be, so even in Ca I'd generally consider any bike without a title to be a parts bike and consider myself lucky if I was able to get it titled, and I'd try to do the title before putting any major work into it.