Group riding etiquette

[Special Ed]

On our central coast Cali Rally there were a couple of group riding issues that came up.
1. I ticked off a fellow senior rider when I got ahead of him as we approached a construction stop. He had been riding in front of me, and as we approached the flagman, he slowed way in advance to a crawl. I was tired of the view of his bike anyway, so I passed him and filled the gap. He pulled up next to me and said “That wasn't polite.” I replied something to the effect that I didn't realize we had assigned spaces. Later I learned that he had complained to another rider about the incident. According to his pack riding rules once the ride starts a rider is supposed to keep that position..
2. Nobody really wanted to lead the ride, but eventually some one reluctantly volunteered. We stayed together fairly well on the freeway, but when we went through a town the pack got broken up. The leader and 5 or 6 bikes just kept on going and disappeared down the road, leaving the rest of us scattered out in traffic. There was plenty of opportunity for the bikes in front to pull over and wait for us to catch up, but they never did. I had to ride like hell to catch up.
I welcome comments on either of these issues, or on pack riding etiquette in general. I bring this up because I know there are more rally’s coming up, and I think before a group ride some one should call for a riders meeting to go over some rules of the road for group riding, both for safety sake, and to make for a more enjoyable ride.
Special Ed

PS These were the only downers for me on the whole rally, and they didn't bother me for long. On the whole it was great to re connect and ride with everyone!

[DAVINCI]

You should have a driver's meeting before the ride, but it seems to me that you were sorely lacking in leadership. I'd hardly call what you guys did a 'rally'. The ones we do here in the east are organized to the nth degree. Just my humble opinion, but my experience has been that the more organized a ride is, the more fun it is for everyone.

As for the on-the-fly-position-changing, it can make for some upset in the group as some will try to re-form the staggering when that happens. if I'm not comfortable with my position, I'll suck it up and wait till a scheduled stop, then pick another spot in the group.

[CatatonicBug]

The only group riding I do is with a local meetup.com group. I tend to agree with the placement complaint though. Once a ride starts, you stay in your position at least until the next scheduled stop. Usually, there is a leader who knows the route like the back of his hand, followed by the least-experienced rider(s). Then, at the end, the sweeper also knows the route very well and keeps the group together. The sweeper is responsible for running up in front of the group at stop lights/signs to block traffic so the whole group can get through at once, and on the highway, the sweeper works to coordinate lane changes, so there is a large enough space for the whole group to change lanes together. Of course, a CB connection between the leader and sweeper helps, but it's not required.

Each rider is responsible for the person BEHIND them, making sure that no one gets left behind. If that happens, a horn signal gets passed to the front, so the leading group can pull over or slow down until the rest can catch up. It's bad form to just abandon the back of the pack because traffic cut the group in half...

[planedick]

Stagger

Some don't under stand the stagger reason. It gives a person room for emergency actions like quick stops and everyone should stay in a stagger position expecially during quick stops. When in town it allows for the group to stay close together enough so cages don't get mixed in with the group and still allow for room for manuvering. I don't think anyone should get upset if the rider position changes. Just restagger and continue on. I've been on some of those rides and some just don't stay up with the group and let the leaders get a mile ahead on the freeway and half block in town. No excuse, if you can't keep up, go to the back.

I often ride with the Patriot Guard Riders and they always have a meeting to explain all this and really do require that you pay attention to the rules and folow them. If you don't you get a little visit from the ride captian at the first stop and get reminded again.

[skipt]

Ed, sorry to hear of your group ride problems. I agree with what has been posted above. I understand from the planning posts of this getogether that it is pretty loose. However there should have certainly been a meeting to cover that stuff and whoever was leading the group should certainly have pulled over in order to keep everyone together. Its a lot different having a group of any size riding togther than when traveling solo or with just a riding buddy. It's all a learning curve.

Hope your health is improving.

[BA80]

I've ridden with some of the best on some of the best roads in a group. If the position your in is cramping you or someone else there's not a thing wrong with moving either up or back to create a more comfortable ride for everyone.

Frequent stops to let the group get back together particularly at turnoffs is a must. Different people ride at different paces. One speed or style doesn't fit all.

The stagger is a given. That is a safety issue and if riding in a tight group a must. If someone is all over the place it needs to be addressed.

Just my $.02 worth.

[WMarshy]

With some of the guys I ride with, if you pull up next to them then that means you want to switch positions with that person, otherwise we all stay in staggered form. As to the leader that didnt slow and wait for the remaining riders, thats just being a sh*tty leader IMO. As a leader your responsible for keeping everyone together. No excuse to lose someone and make them beat feet to catch up, especially if they dont know the area.

Then, I have another group of guys I ride with that dont care if you decide to pass them, no rules apply we just know eachothers riding habbits well... Sometimes the leader will drop back and ride side by side when its ok to do so. If he drops back enough for you to see him in your mirror then he wants you to take lead.

[g15usmc]

I think the key to this is COMMUNICATION...if u dont want people changing positions and your up front, let everyone know...if you like to do a braid position changes, there is nothing wrong as long as its safe...everyone with experience should be riding to the most inexperienced riders abilities...which is to say the least experienced is going to be near the back with probably the most distance from the guy in front of him in order to continue to ride "his" pace...as for in town riding again Communication is a key...I've seen the last rider do the road guarding to let everyone in the group through and I've seen the a middle man do this, as well as the lead generally with the second guy being the next lead vehicle...after all have passed through the road guard moves back to his original position...In My opinion, I like the middle man idea, this allows the lead bike to stay in lead, and the tail bike stay in tail in case of an emergency, and then the road guard in the middle to take care of the roads...seems safest to me...and then if the tail bike needs to stop in an emergency the middle bike can take over this tail position until the tail catches back up or until the next stop whichever occurs first...I also like the 25 mi, rule...where there is a stop every 25 Mi or so in order to regroup as well as let sore butts relax...which seems to only to happen to those with more rigid bikes...and the max between stops 50 Mi...and generally only when it is a straight shot...but I'm sure the Cali Rally was a blast...

[psycoreefer]

what do you mean by "road guard", do you mean someone to block an intersection (regardless of the light) until the whole group passes?

I hope not because that is illegal, and really pisses off other drivers. Unless your group is part of a parade, or is so big and well organized that it has police support you've got no business blocking intersections, just to keep the group together.

IMHO the better way is to designate 2 (or more depending on the group size) sub leaders and break the group up into smaller groups while driving through sections with many lights. Then designate a rally location just past the last set of lights that are likely to cause trouble.

I do agree that communication is the key, and if that doesn't happen then I'm going to ride how I feel comfortable (pace, spacing, whatever) and would expect others to do the same. If someone or a portion of the group seems to be doing something I'm very uncomfortable with I've got no problem bailing out and doing my own thing, I'll see you back at the camp ground!

[3Phase]

If someone or a portion of the group seems to be doing something I'm very uncomfortable with I've got no problem bailing out and doing my own thing, I'll see you back at the camp ground!

+1

Hammer --> nail --> head

[Jerry]

Group rides should not be that rigid. However, there are a few guidlines:

Ride in staggerd formation.

Passing or changing position in a group is acceptable as long as it is done safely.

Whenever possilble as act a group. If you are stopped at a light or intersection, go through as a group. Don't have each individual rider stop at the light or sign.

Use hand gestures (in addition to turn lights) to indicate left turns, right turns, slow down, point to "stuff" on the road.

Route planners should have "catch-up" places for people who get separated or want to stop for a photo. Discuss these at the start of the route or along the way at fuel/food/photo stops.

If a rider is gong to stop for a non-emergency reason, he/she should give the "thumbs up" hand signal to show all is OK and will catch up later.

If a corner or route change is not obvious, ride leaders should pull over after the route change as soon as possible to make sure everyone gets the corner or route change. May need to post a rider at the change to make sure everyone gets it.

Everyone in the group should be checking those behind him/her. Tail gunners (last person in the group) has the responsibility to signal riders ahead if there are problems or issues that the entire group should pull over to address, such as a break down or accident. Signalling includes waving arms, blinking hi-lo lights, using 4-way flashers, what ever it takes to get the attention of those riding ahead. Be on the look out for these signals from the riders behind you, and pass them forward if they do occur.

Keep an eye on your ride leader. When he/she gets ready to roll, you get ready too. Finish your conversations, put out your cigarette, take your last drink of water, and get ready to ride.

Group riding it isn't rocket science. Comunicate, plan, ride in a safe manner, watch your fellow riders, and your group rides will be enjoyable and safe.

[Kit]

what do you mean by "road guard", do you mean someone to block an intersection (regardless of the light) until the whole group passes?

I hope not because that is illegal, and really pisses off other drivers. Unless your group is part of a parade, or is so big and well organized that it has police support you've got no business blocking intersections, just to keep the group together.

Agreed. I don't know about other states, but in Oregon, this is illegal unless in a funeral procession.

[Elevener]

Y'all are making me glad I ride alone and avoid crowds.

[BA80]

Actually, it's not that complicated unless the leader crashes halfway up the Pig Trail.

[g15usmc]

Never seen anyone get a ticket for blocking the intersection to let the group pass...I'm sure its not legal, but I know where I'm at in Cali, both the San Bernardino Sheriff as well as the CHP have told us that, doing it is acceptable...I suppose its up to the group leader no matter what anyway...But i'm not worried about blocking an intersection to keep the group safe and together...