Nanny state is going to do this to your motorcycle

[Jerry]

I think Japan has a stepped license system.

As for starting out on smaller bikes, thats the way I dit it. Started with a Honda 90. Also rode a Yamaha 185 dirt bike for a while, but not on the street.

Personally, I think every rider should have some experience on a dirt bike.

[crazy steve]

I have to agree with Jerry; I started with various dirt bikes (before I was old enough to have a DL), had a Suzuki 175 twin for my first street bike (too slow to safely ride on the freeway), moved to a 360 Enduro (this one would do freeway speeds, but you almost needed someone to pry your numb hands off the bars if you went any distance), moved up to a XS2, and from that to a new '78 XS11.

All I've owned since is liter-plus bikes, but I mangaged to do most of my learning-curve 'get-offs' on the smaller bikes. And that's the difference; every rider except for the most cautious will inevitably go down, and it's usually a less tramautic experience on a smaller bike...

[CatatonicBug]

That's great for some that live outside the city, and I would love to be able to get my son on a dirtbike, but there is nowhere around here to RIDE one! Plus, unless you have a truck or trailer, you have no way of getting a dirtbike to a riding location.

Around here, you can't get anywhere without getting on the freeway. SWMBO has vision issues, and can't drive freeways for any distance (more than a few exits). She's coming from Utah where all the surface streets are in a grid, and you can just follow them to anywhere a freeway could take you. Unfortunately, she can't get anywhere around here without me taking her. That would REALLY restrict the use of smaller bikes (limiting the number of potential new riders) around here, and probably in most large cities where bikes are actually a benefit to road/traffic conditions.

[Ken Talbot]

There is no way I could have been able to afford to buy a small bike, fix it up, ride it for a year, then buy ANOTHER bike to fix up. I would have gotten frustrated with the limitations of the small bike in a matter of weeks....

Hmm, that sounds a lot like my introduction to riding. My first ride was the moped I got from my Uncle, and it was seized when I got it. I got it going, then bought a true basket case Ducati that I had to assemble fro multiple boxes of parts. It wasn't until I got to bike #3 that I had one I could ride home from the dealership, but even with this one, I ordered all the parts it needed for a top-ed job before I drove it home.

Pics, and a bit more dialog are here.

Part of me thinks it would be good for everyone to go through a process like this. Working up gradually, and actually building up a bit of sweat equity in what you ride could be a good thing, although I'm sure it would be a bit impractical for most people.

[latexeses]

Heck, my mom still sounds like that if she is riding in a vehicle I am driving

My mom was like that till the day she died. Stomped the carpet flat tryin to stop every time she rode in the car.

[b.walker5]

I'd like to see them fit a 'vibrating' anything to a big street single or twin that you could notice over the engine shaking...

One thing I do agree with them on is the 'stepped' licensing. Washington state has had this on and off, and it's a good thing if it keeps some wannabe from buying a 190mph rocket or 700lb tour-monster as their first bike....

We have that here, and for the most part it works pretty well. We have a 3 step licence system. 1st step is a Learners licence for 6 months in which you are limited to 70kph, 250cc's and daylight only, displaying an L plate. 2nd step is 18 months of general riding restricted to 250cc's with no speed or daylight restriction (can be reduced to 9 mths by completing a defensive driving course). 3rd step is unrestricted after completing a reasonably extensive practical riding test.

The only time it falls over is when some young sprite buys a 250 space rocket that can do a million miles an hour and wraps it round a car on the motorway.

For that reason the law makers are currently looking at removing the cc restriction and replacing it with a max HP rating for learners.

[malber]

Funny comments, all. I'd have to say that when I'm riding a back road I've never travelled before I'd appreciate a system that would tell me about something like an upcoming decreasing radius turn, or if the road up ahead happens to be unpaved gravel. I've also had instances where despite all the mirror checking and turning of the head, I've been surprised by the cage driver that insists on cruising in my blind spot, so a helmet vibration would be appreciated.

Of course none of this substitutes for proper training which should be mandatory to get an MC certification.

In Europe and the UK I could see this becoming a mandated system for all bikes, but not in the US.

[motoman]

More distractions, just what you need Malber. To give you an example from the ST site: during a small group ride, one of the riders(same one who posted) while on some twisty rodes was looking at his GPS to anticipate upcoming corners. Veered across centerline striking an oncoming couple on a full dress Harley. All involved escaped with some broken bones and of course wrecked bikes. Right off, think you all see at least two issues here. One being a group ride and GPS......what the h**l was he thinking, using a GPS on a lead group ride! Sorry, FULL attention must be given to the road whether on two wheels or four or eventually you pay the consequences. Any kind of pre-warning gizzmo used is nothing more than a distraction from the immediate thing your supposed to be watching. The above accident just happened a few weeks ago. Something to think about before adding the many farkles that can distract you from the task at hand......and be able to enjoy many more future rides.....

[malber]

More distractions, just what you need Malber. To give you an example from the ST site: during a small group ride, one of the riders(same one who posted) while on some twisty rodes was looking at his GPS to anticipate upcoming corners. Veered across centerline striking an oncoming couple on a full dress Harley. All involved escaped with some broken bones and of course wrecked bikes. Right off, think you all see at least two issues here. One being a group ride and GPS......what the h**l was he thinking, using a GPS on a lead group ride! Sorry, FULL attention must be given to the road whether on two wheels or four or eventually you pay the consequences. Any kind of pre-warning gizzmo used is nothing more than a distraction from the immediate thing your supposed to be watching. The above accident just happened a few weeks ago. Something to think about before adding the many farkles that can distract you from the task at hand......and be able to enjoy many more future rides.....

I think it depends on the application. Having your head burried in a GPS unit and riding into oncomming traffic is like doing a Clark Griswold and driving off the end of the interstate. But a simple warning like "decreasing radius turn ahead" or "congested traffic ahead" on a HUD would be helpful, IMO. Very often where I live the signage is insufficient.

Of course not for our XS bikes. I could see a system like this done well on a BMW. It might take some of the adventure out of exploring new twisties.