The dangers of trailers

[DGXSER]

Soooooo....... His name was El Booj...El Boof....?

In actuality, IIRC, you had to be smoking some REALLY GOOD stuff and shootin some more to even see the resemblance. But he can still file the suit. And the court system still has spend the time to process it.

[CatatonicBug]

Soooooo....... His name was El Booj...El Boof....?

I was thinking more like ojboob.

[81xsproject]

Completely off subject here, but whats new. The sad thign about that Scott, is how true it is. There is an actual court case where a man sued Google for name infringment, because if you wrote his last name upside down and backwards it looked alot like Google...

Soooooo....... His name was El Booj...El Boof....?

[3Phase]

Completely off subject here, but whats new. The sad thign about that Scott, is how true it is. There is an actual court case where a man sued Google for name infringment, because if you wrote his last name upside down and backwards it looked alot like Google.

I think I remember reading about that one; genuine frivolous lawsuit but I don't remember how it turned out. I could Google it...

The suit against Harley, I think he's suing the tire company too but I'm not sure, is kind of understandable if it's a delaying tactic combined with a roll of the legal dice. The guy lost his wife and probably has bills out the wazoo so he filed the standard, "Sue everyone!" paperwork to get some time, maybe some money, to keep the wolf away from the door while the suit is being considered. For the sake of everyone else on the planet (I know I don't want a tattoo on my forehead!) I really hope he loses but he's in for a rough time however the lawsuit goes.

Condolences to your wife; even the best attorneys have to lose sometimes, lucky you!

OH come on now ... everyone knows that the warnings should have been tattooed right on the buyers forehead, in reverse so they can be read in a mirror, as soon as the bike was sold to him. We all know that.... right DAAAA
Rob

He'd still never read it! Even if there wasn't already a giant RTL/LTR or spider/web tattoo on his forehead, a warning tattoo would be covered up by the poser grease, mirrored shades and the doo rag under the beanie helmet with the fake DOT sticker.

[79XS11F]

OH come on now ... everyone knows that the warnings should have been tattooed right on the buyers forehead, in reverse so they can be read in a mirror, as soon as the bike was sold to him. We all know that.... right DAAAA
Rob

[DGXSER]

A man was injured and his wife was killed while riding their bike and pulling a trailer but they were just dumb Harley owners so it probably doesn't count because they were not smart enough to ride and overload an XS and its tires whilst pulling a trailer:-

Steven Morris v. Harley-Davidson Motor Co., et al., No. 3:09-cv-74 (M.D. Ga.).

Completely off subject here, but whats new. The sad thign about that Scott, is how true it is. There is an actual court case where a man sued Google for name infringment, because if you wrote his last name upside down and backwards it looked alot like Google. This case actually had to go through the judicial process!! Google had to spend the time and effor tot repsond to this!!

We have gotten to the point where we have made life so easy to live that it seems we have gathered a belief that no one needs to suffer from their own ignorance and inability to learn form their own mistakes. If I hit my thumb with the hammer trying to drive a nail, it is the fault of the hammer manufacturer that they did not poste a warnign on the hammer that I should keep my thumb out of the way of a misguided blow.

Yeah, my wife is an attorney and that is one of her faults I overlook! Its only fair considering how many of mine she has to look past!!

[3Phase]

Failure to Warn Claim Survives- But Why?

A man was injured and his wife was killed while riding their bike and pulling a trailer but they were just dumb Harley owners so it probably doesn't count because they were not smart enough to ride and overload an XS and its tires whilst pulling a trailer:-

Steven Morris v. Harley-Davidson Motor Co., et al., No. 3:09-cv-74 (M.D. Ga.).

Plaintiff alleged that the rear tire of his motorcycle failed, resulting in a crash that killed plaintiff’s wife and left plaintiff seriously injured. Plaintiff contended that the defendants (including the tire company) failed to provide an adequate warning regarding the dangers of overloading the motorcycle. With a full tank of gas weighing 31 pounds, the plaintiff's Ultra Classic’s Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) allowed for an additional 420 pounds of weight capacity for the rider, any passenger, cargo, and accessories. Plaintiff, who weighed 250 pounds, was with his wife, who weighed 204 pounds, riding as a rear passenger. Plaintiff was also pulling a trailer.

The court found it significant that the weight of the trailer was not listed in the components of the GVWR, but that was because the Owner’s Manual also warned against pulling a trailer, ever: “Do not pull a trailer with a motorcycle. Pulling a trailer can cause tire overload, reduced braking efficiency and adversely affect stability and handling, which could result in death or serious injury.” That is exactly what happened, according to plaintiff!

Plaintiff admitted he never read the Owner’s Manual. But in addition to the warnings in the Owner’s Manual, there were also warnings on the Ultra Classic. One warning was located inside the storage compartment on the back end of the Ultra Classic, over the rear wheel, and behind the passenger’s seat, and the Ultra Classic also contained an information plate on the steering head, which listed the Ultra Classic’s GVWR, recommended tire pressures, and other information. Plaintiff testified that he did not see these warnings either.

[rneal55555]

I never towed with my XS but if have down a few miles pulling a Bushtec and a HF kit Home Built behind my Venture.

For the record there are lots of companies out the still building MC trailers from small single wheels up to pop up campers.

Here's a link to a MC trailer forum http://forums.delphiforums.com/MCTrailertowing/? if you scroll down you'll see links to a dozen or more.

As has been said tongue weight needs to be at least 10-15 % of gross trailer weight to prevent sway no matter the size of the trailer.

If building a home built the distance from the axle to the ball (or other coupler) should be at least twice the width of the axle to the center of the tires.

Here is what BD specialties has to say about brakes on their Bunkhouse Campers http://www.bf-specialties.com/brakes.html


Lastly if your looking at towing or do already, I recommend spending sometime looking around at least in MCTrailertowing forum linked above most of the questions have been asked and answered there already.

[Kronk]

My Bad... there was only one windshield... but still rediculous...



Hope this works, first time posting pics...

[Kronk]

You want to see a scary trailer....

I'll get the pic off her and post it, but my cousin snapped a pic of a hardley towing a super B set up...

He had one trailer with 2 wooden kegs on it, and a second trailer with one wooden keg on it... (as long as it's shorter than 26 feet, this is perfectly legal here) each keg had a windshield attached to the top of it, a hole in the top, and a bulldogs head popping out of the hole... I'll try to find the pic now...

[Jerry]

Result is that the Bike and trailer, fully laden and with pillion aboard stop better than the bike & rider alone.

While I greatly admire the ingenuity with which this was done, I still believe this is a bad idea. You should be able to stop a 126 pound trailer (empty) with your stock brakes. I have never had a problem braking my fully-loaded trailer with either the XJ or my Connie, although I do not add a pillion passenger to the mix. Trailer, pillion, and rider? IMHO you are pushing that Special beyond safe limits, even with trailer brakes.

Main point I am trying to make is that trailering does add some dangers to riding a bike, but these can be mitigated though various means. It takes some experimentation and tweaking, particularly on home-built rigs. The accident described at the start of this thread is atypical of trailering. There are lots of bikes pulling trailers, and there are thousands of miles put safely on them every season.

[Eveready1100]

I'm trying to find a better pic of the rig as that other shot does tend to distort the scale of things a bit. Here's one that shows it a bit more side on.



In its current spec, it weighs in at 126lbs empty. The whole body above the frame is either plastic or lexan so it doesn't weigh much at all.
Over this side of the pond, trailer manufacturers have hit top gear with plenty of companies offering units ranging from little 50 litre single wheelers, scores of fibreglass and aluminium bodied touring trailers up to the fully outfitted popup camper units that weigh in at around 350 lbs for the trailer/ tent frame/annexe alone and Motorcycle dealers are fitting towbars to new bikes as an accessory item, so I don't know what you guys did to upset yours over there.
On the home made front, refigerator bodies make a very popular body as you strip the fridge area out for storage, the freezer area makes an instant esky, and the compressor and coil area is closed in to make a great toolbox.

[crazy steve]

Ok, one more post.... here's an ad from '78 for a Cycle Kamp trailer; this is a tent trailer. Mine looked much the same, but had a shorter box, about the same size as the rear, higher part of this one.

http://vintage-original-ads.com/Pictures/displayimage.php?album=53&pid=2071#top_display_media

[crazy steve]

My last post to this thread, then do what you want to do...

While I admire Eveready's fab/design skills in coming up with a functioning solution for trailer brakes, the sheer size of his trailer scares the hell out of me and I wouldn't be caught dead towing it behind a bike; it's much too big... sorry.

Here's a cautionary tale, personally experienced. I feel very fortunate to have come out unscathed.

As I've mentioned, I towed a small trailer behind my XS for several years and never had any problems.... except once. I haven't mentioned it before now because it was a bit of a fluky deal and would extremely unlikely to happen to any trailer except this particular model. My trailer was a factory-built unit, made by a company long since out of business called CycleKamp. It was a nice peice, but had a major design flaw that I should have paid attention to; I guess in those days I was more trusting of the 'professionals'.

The flaw? It really didn't have a 'frame'. The structural components consisted of the fiberglass cargo box, with two side rails carrying the leaf springs/axle bolted through the box. There was also a rail bolted to the back ends of the side rails across the rear. The tongue was attached at two points; one bolt in the rear through that rail and the box, one in the front through the box only. Now, I looked at this early on, but trusting the designers (lesson learned...I have a much more skeptical eye now) and seeing how the fiberglass was about 1/4" thick and had two big washers sandwiching the 'glass, assumed it must be good. Well, it lasted several years, but the forward tongue bolt pulled through the box one day...

I was coming home from work, cruising at about 55-60 on a straight road when I felt a slight 'tug' at the rear; I almost turned around to see what it was, when the rear of the bike made a violent jerk to one side, literally moving the rear tire sideways several inches. Well, that got my attention so I concentrated on keeping the bike upright while the rear of the bike was viciously jerked back and forth. In what seemed like forever (but was probably 15-20 seconds), I struggled for control and got the bike stopped. I never touched the brakes; the handlebars jerked when the bike did, so I had a death grip on those.

What happened? When the forward bolt failed, the tongue pivoted on the rear bolt, 'steering' the trailer first one way until it flipped up on it's side, then it would reverse to the other side, repeating until I got it stopped. Both front corners of the box were chewed up, both hubcaps were mashed in, and it bent one wheel lip enough to break the tire bead.

The lesson here? I was towing the trailer all but empty; all that was in it was a few articles of clothing, a lunchbox, and my 'work' toolbox, which weighed no more that 35 lbs. I had no more than 110 lbs behind me, and it almost took me down. If it had been at it's 150 lb capacity, this may not have had quite as happy an ending. Now, I'll fully admit that this particular problem would never happen with a properly built trailer. But how about a tire failure? Or some other mechanical failure? Or hitting some debris? So you who are running large, heavy trailers, do you honestly think you'll keep control or even stay upright when you have 200+ lbs swinging around behind you? Or that trailer brakes would help? You may be betting your life...

The post mortem on the trailer: it wasn't beat up all that bad. One new wheel/tire, a pair of hubcaps, and some minor repair at the corners and it was fine. The lid never fit quite as well though... I did disassemble it and fab a full frame (duh!) and never had any issues after that. Upon close inspection, the '1/4 inch' thick fiberglass that the bolt pulled through wasn't... it was two single layers of cloth sandwiching EFFING cardboard filler!! JEEZUSS, what were they thinking??!!

[cywelchjr]

I can relate to Jerry and his reasons for towing a trailer. Absolutely agree on the drawbar weight being more is better up to a point. My brake setup was prompted by the lack of stopping power from those awful ATE calipers on the front of my Special. I built the trailer, took it for a shakedown run over my favourite set of twisties, made a minor adjustment to the drawbar length, tested it again and it was perfect - except for the slight inconvenience of not being able to stop it. So I went about curing that problem.
Took me one weekend, one pair of torana disc hubs, one pair of XS11 rotors, one pair of ZZR600 calipers, lines and MC, a length of cable and a few bits of scrap steel. End result is totally controllable stopping.
Extra rear brake pedal

Not reposting the pictures, but you gotta admit that's a pretty big and likely heavy trailer for these bikes. What's that thing weigh in at empty? Loaded? I believe it was mentioned earlier that following the general rules that these things shouldn't pull more than about 160lbs behind them, although I'll admit that brakes on the trailer will help, these things still don't have the stability a car or truck does. I'm guessing that thing trips the scales somewhere above 200lbs empty? Am I in the ballpark there? Add up the weight of these things and a rider and passenger, and it's not too hard to be over 1000lbs, and then put a trailer out behind it and what were adequate brakes become inadequate quickly as the rear tire tends to get lifted by the trailer making it even more likely to skid, and thowing even more onto the front brakes. SS brake lines will help, and I think that special pads are smaller than standard front pads (help me out here guys cause I'm not sure) which would give them a little less power as well. I frankly would be scared to try and pull that big thing behind my bike, even with the brakes on the trailer, cause the inertia of it trying to change lanes would be really scarry.