I've been DEMOTED?? Whaa?

[psycoreefer]

Maybe its because I'm relatively new to "guru-ness" but I've only gotten a few PM's from people asking for info - and those were about mod's I'd done but not really explained anywhere, and before I reached my guru status. I agree that post count has little to do with knowledge or ability (hmm, maybe thats why I don't get pm's?). BTW if I ever do get PM's like that I think it would be proper etiquette to recommend the person start a thread, or search for old ones, I think I give good advice, but I also believe in providing info and letting folks make up their own minds, ya know teach a man to fish...

That said I don't see why folks would care if they lost a few posts, its just the internet, people will judge your posts for their technical content, not by the number in the corner.

Also...

Also, this will allow people, who claim to have limited mechanical ability, to sucker someone into fixing their bike for them, then, when they think "Hey! That was easy!", instead of paying it forward, they can charge people exteraneous fees to do the same job someone else has done for them for free, because after all, they are a GURU.

If someone here is really doing this I think they ought to be outed, that type of behavior just isn't right. I've got no problem with charging something for labor, I can understand wanting to be compensated for one's time, and if this person feels that way then they should offer whoever fixed their bike for them equal payment for whatever was done, plus some for the "education". If the teacher doesn't want the payment, it should be donated to the forum, or as mentioned paid forward.

[fredintoon]

Sturgeon's Statement.

- - - This will ensure that when a newbie contacts a guru they get correct information. You know, like how silicone pieces can break off and mystically deny the laws of physics - - -

Hi Ivan,
this particular caveat is attributed to the science fiction author Theodore Sturgeon and is particularly insightful regarding anything one might see on the 'net.
Sturgeon's Statement:-
90% of everything is crud.

[Ivan]

Well Psycoreefer, while I do have a high tendency to kid, the described events did actually happen, and were all committed by people here on XS11.com. A couple of the events were outside the website, but, all are true. If I call a spade a spade and put names to the stories, I will probably get banned, since one reference involves a moderator. Not like I won't soon be banned anyway. I apparently share a trait with the late Bob Jones in that I will give my sometimes abrasive opinion, solicited or not.

[CatatonicBug]

That said I don't see why folks would care if they lost a few posts, its just the internet, people will judge your posts for their technical content, not by the number in the corner.

Also...

If someone here is really doing this I think they ought to be outed, that type of behavior just isn't right. I've got no problem with charging something for labor, I can understand wanting to be compensated for one's time, and if this person feels that way then they should offer whoever fixed their bike for them equal payment for whatever was done, plus some for the "education". If the teacher doesn't want the payment, it should be donated to the forum, or as mentioned paid forward.

I agree. A lot of posts on here (like this entire thread) are fluff anyway, and numbers really mean nothing.

Also, I'm all for helping another member (or non-member) with their bike, and as long as they want to learn from it, and I'm HELPING them, I'll do it for free. IMO, that's what this forum is all about - a place to share knowledge and experiences without having to rely on the expensive "professionals" who often get it wrong anyway. I learn from people here for free, so I will pass on anything I can in the same way. However, there are folks who just want to hand off their bike to get fixed by someone else. In those cases, I feel it's perfectly acceptable to charge a reasonable fee for the service.

[Ivan]

And with that attitude Bug, don't ever expect anyone to help you. At this point after hearijng you say that, if you were broke down on the side of the road, I'd offer to call someone for you, even if I had the tools to fix you, but I'd have to charge you for the use of my phone.

Hope that's ok.

[CatatonicBug]

And with that attitude Bug, don't ever expect anyone to help you. At this point after hearijng you say that, if you were broke down on the side of the road, I'd offer to call someone for you, even if I had the tools to fix you, but I'd have to charge you for the use of my phone.

Hope that's ok.

Huh?? Not sure I understand where you're coming from... I only meant to say that I offer my HELP for free to anyone I can. It's just those who have no interest in getting their fingers dirty that I would charge.

[dpotter58]

And with that attitude Bug, don't ever expect anyone to help you. At this point after hearijng you say that, if you were broke down on the side of the road, I'd offer to call someone for you, even if I had the tools to fix you, but I'd have to charge you for the use of my phone.

Hope that's ok.

Wrong side of the bed big boy? Too little sleep?

[fredintoon]

What Jessie's saying is that the vBulletin software does not support differentiating the post count between the Tech Forum and other forums, so the post counts increase no matter what or where you post!

But in general, for NEWBIES, it can give a person a modest sense of whether any advice that is delved out by a member can be considered proper and accurate based "PARTLY" on seeing the post count that the person providing the info has. There are always EXCEPTIONS to this as has already been pointed out in the previous posts, but just like the jetting "GUIDE", it's a guide, not a hard and fast rule!

T.C.

Hi T.C.
so the site's software can only rack up one's post count regardless of content or placement.
Same like it'll only blank out a bad word if it's spelled right.
(Which is good if I feel the need to call someone an arsehole, because it can only spell in American; or a wanker because it doesn't recognize the word.)
But what is under admin. control is the "Guru" designation itself.
We already see "Guruilla" and "Guruette" amongst others as variations on the basic "Guru" so designation changes are possible and could be made according to a member's perceived skill set rather than a measure of their prolixity.

[Ivan]

So, someone gives of their time and energy and ability, all of which are indeed marketable, and you take the gift, offer nothing in return, then charge others for that, you don't get why that might slight those that GAVE you what you have SOLD? Really, I am asking legitimately here. It really doesn't matter if who you help or charge wants to learn, a kind gesture is a kind gesture.

DuWayne, I OWN the wrong side of the bed. Maybe I just need some of that 3.2 beer.

[CatatonicBug]

So, someone gives of their time and energy and ability, all of which are indeed marketable, and you take the gift, offer nothing in return, then charge others for that, you don't get why that might slight those that GAVE you what you have SOLD? Really, I am asking legitimately here. It really doesn't matter if who you help or charge wants to learn, a kind gesture is a kind gesture.

To me, there is a BIG difference between someone who doesn't know something, but wants to learn it, and someone who wants someone else to do it FOR them. What I have been given (taught) was learned by doing. I try to absorb information so that I can privide it back out to those who want it.

It's like sending your carbs to another member to be cleaned and rebuilt. Would you not expect to have to pay for that service? If someone nearby needed carb work done, I would always offer to come to their location and help them walk through it, and give instruction - all for free. However, if they said they would rather just send them to me and have me do it on my own, do you see anything wrong with charging for that service?

[Ivan]

Yeah, I would see a lot wrong with that, especially if someone else walked me through the process without compensation, as most times teaching is harder and more frustrating than just doing it. However, I paid to learn how to rebuild carbs, and with that knowledge I repaid my mentor many many thousands of dollars by earning them in his business. So, by upping his profit margin for five years, I would stand to say that my debt of gratitude had been repaid in full. Now, I would imagine that Mr. Wagner would have been pissed if I had learned how to rebuild carbs, then started doing it on the side , and not bringing that business to his shop.

I wouldn't ever teach someone something that I learned from the sweat of my brow if I knew they would TAKE it and use it for personal gain. That's what schools are for, and you'll notice you have to pay for those.

So, last summer, a bunch of guys rebuilt my scoot after it got modified by a Saturn. Now, do you think they would have been slighted if I turned around and sold it for several thousand? Its the same situation, only the gift is different.

If, by this time you don't see my point, its on you. I am not going to argue it further.

[Wildkat]

Those guys deserve to die on the Million Dollar Highway (in jest of course)

The actual quote from my Facebook wall is:

they'll make it easy on you... They have a ride planned coming your way in July... if the Million Dollar Highway doesn't get them... you can finish them off for me...

and was made after a very good friend of mine offered to jokingly take care of some people for me... I realize that it was in very poor taste and I have apologized to most of those it referred to...

If I call a spade a spade and put names to the stories, I will probably get banned, since one reference involves a moderator.

Nope... it doesn't work that way.

[Ivan]

So, since the spade has been called, its ok to threaten people's life if you're joking, but getting in an arguement over hard tails is enough to shut down a forum and delete my thoughts whether or not I agree?

FWIW, I don't see how saying your friends can finish us off is a joke. Maybe between you and your friend, but I am pretty sure the rest of us just didn't see it that way. Especially in the light that something as trivial as not getting invited to a gathering because your attitude sucks incites enough ire to wish us dead, joking or not.

As far as how it works, its been stated that the rules are subject to change as the moderators see fit, so I have little faith in the "way it works".

[Wildkat]

I'm not going to argue with you as your mind is made up on this...

I guess it's a good thing all of the joking that others do isn't taken this seriously...

[CatatonicBug]

Yeah, I would see a lot wrong with that, especially if someone else walked me through the process without compensation, as most times teaching is harder and more frustrating than just doing it. However, I paid to learn how to rebuild carbs, and with that knowledge I repaid my mentor many many thousands of dollars by earning them in his business. So, by upping his profit margin for five years, I would stand to say that my debt of gratitude had been repaid in full. Now, I would imagine that Mr. Wagner would have been pissed if I had learned how to rebuild carbs, then started doing it on the side , and not bringing that business to his shop.

I wouldn't ever teach someone something that I learned from the sweat of my brow if I knew they would TAKE it and use it for personal gain. That's what schools are for, and you'll notice you have to pay for those.

So, last summer, a bunch of guys rebuilt my scoot after it got modified by a Saturn. Now, do you think they would have been slighted if I turned around and sold it for several thousand? Its the same situation, only the gift is different.

If, by this time you don't see my point, its on you. I am not going to argue it further.

Ok, well, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Teaching is something that I feel I have an obligation to do for anyone who is interested in information I posess. Most of the information I have obtained in life has been obtained in the same way - without an exchange of payment. However, my skills and knowledge won't be "used" by someone with the physical/mental ability to learn first, and then do things for himself. In that case, I expect some form of compensation.

To me, if I paid out of my own pocket to learn something - anything - that knowledge is mine to do with as I choose. I no longer owe the teacher anything at all. If I choose to teach others for free, so they can (hopefully) pay it forward and teach more people, that's up to me. If I want to charge others for my services (either to teach that information to them, or to excersize that knowlege without passing it along), that is also my choice.

As far as I am concerned, I owe my employer nothing at all, except for the quality work they pay me to do while I am there during the day. Now, if my employer paid for me to learn something that would allow the company to make a profit, I can see how restricting access to that information might be warranted. However, once the employment is over, I still hold that information, and can now use it however I see fit (either to share freely or to charge for it).

My way of looking at it is that I will volunteer my time and knowledge, as long as the recipient then takes it and can do something with it, like perform that task for himself the next time (teach a man to fish). If they tell me they would rather NOT learn, and just want me to be a service technician, I can do that too, but not for free.