The death of the Hot Buttons forum.

[Wildkat]

Those attitudes are still there, and will always be there. The most hateful arguments that I've seen were from the kids building choppers, and the older folks throwing fits about it.
And as much as 81xsproject doesn't like it. There will always be arguments on this site. That's what people do.

That's very true. There will always be disagreements and they will be dealt with accordingly if necessary. I would like to think that maturity will prevail and any other disagreements will not sink to the depths that some posts have gone to... but some will... and they will be handled.
That's what Moderators do.

[joceiphus]

That's something to think about. Why does maturity prevail, except in HBT?

[b.walker5]

The point of this thread has become pointless..time to kill it too...

Amen to that.

[DGXSER]

Original post deleted cause Its all been said before.

[joceiphus]

That's something to think about. Why does maturity prevail, except in HBT?

I don't think it does. I'll bet the majority members have left this site because they say that they want to build a chopper. Then, the obligatory dogpile...

Oh, silly me.
There I go arguing.
About a Hot Button Topic no less.
I apoligize.
I will stifle my opinion at once.

[XSokieSPECIAL]

I don't think it does. I'll bet the majority members have left this site because they say that they want to build a chopper. Then, the obligatory dogpile...

Oh, silly me.
There I go arguing.
About a Hot Button Topic no less.
I apoligize.
I will stifle my opinion at once.

I know you don't now son , but someday you WILL understand it's not a dogpile.

It's people who actually enjoy riding and want to see you do the same.

The only place you see those bikes is parked at the curb, or on display.

To uncomfortable to enjoy for any REASONABLE amount of time.

[joceiphus]

i know you don't now son , but someday you will understand it's not a dogpile.

It's people who actually enjoy riding and want to see you do the same.

The only place you see those bikes is parked at the curb, or on display.

To uncomfortable to enjoy for any reasonable amount of time.

niet!!! Niet!!!!! Stifle yourself!!!!!!!!

[Montreux_Blue]

Come on Greg, my bike has done numerous 1,000 mile plus weekends with no rearend on it......

[XSokieSPECIAL]

Come on Greg, my bike has done numerous 1,000 mile plus weekends with no rearend on it......

Not even YOURS.....LOL...

[Montreux_Blue]

Why are you looking at my rear???

[XSokieSPECIAL]

Why are you looking at my rear???

Well........Joe said it was cute......And with no back seat on your bike, it's like your........showing it off.......LOL......

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Folks,

As the Announcement said, the HBT forums were an experiment...but regrettably gone wrong! Most of the MODS felt it was a bad idea to begin with. I wanted to give the membership the benefit of the doubt, and they let me/us down in true human behavior. No amount of pleading, or POLLS or discussions will bring it back.

I have nothing against folks hardtailing their machines. I have no experience with them unlike many senior members here, so I accept a lot of what they say regarding their handling, comfort, etc., not as irrefutable facts, but as anecdotes of experience, along with some common sense thrown in.

I had a modest old sports car, and put some traction bars on it, which stiffened up the rear end quite a bit, and it then liked to hop around when going over bumps and around corners compared to when it had proper suspension. So...combined with that type of personal experience, as well as that of the other member's that have actually ridden hard tailed bikes, and I can understand and appreciate the loss of handling that is being warned about.

The MODERN bikes....aka OCC styled choppers have those monstrous 300mm wide rear tires, which are like big balloons, and so a decent amount of shock absorption is provided by that extra large/wide tire. HOWEVER, unless a person does a big SWINGARM and rear wheel/tire mod to an XS11, then it's running on the same small rear tire as it was stock...but after hardtailing, it no longer has the shock obsorption from either shocks or a large/fat rear tire, and so common sense leads me to agree with the folks that say that the handling performance and comfort will be compromised.

Can folks still ride them? SURE, and young bodies can handle much more than US old folks, and if you aren't riding on potholed city streets, etc., then it may not be that uncomfortable. However, I can also see that different stress points other than the stock/shock mounted ones can develop, and could even lead to catastrophic events. We've seen posts of folks with a SIDECAR have their front frame tubes stress fracture. Folks put on too big/heavy of rear bags and have the tail fender strut frame rails fracture.

I like and appreciate the chopper/bobber minimalist look, they remind me of the early "Harleys" and other V-twins. I've also seen some neat looking sidecar rigs, but they aren't for me..(YET), I still like leaning too much!
Different strokes for different folks. We don't know the knowledge or experience of the NEWBIE posting about chopping/hardtailing his machine, so we don't know if he knows about the changes to handling and comfort that will occur with those types of changes, and so folks are trying to INFORM them. Some folks doing the informing think it's a FOLLY to do that type of modding, but "WE" need to realize that it's THEIR BIKE, their back, their skin, and even their LIFE if they proceed with the changes after they have been informed. "WE" have to learn to wash our hands of the matter AFTER we have provided the INFORMATION, and let them do as they please....perhaps to the detriment of their own comfort or safety, but that IS their decision. "WE" have done our job of informing them, and so our conciences should be CLEAR of guilt if they do not heed our warnings.

I have been advised to change my frame after I was informed that the front rake and trail was radically changed from a front ender I had a few decades ago. It was fixed ( I thought ) by the bike shop..again decades ago, but they only replaced the bent/broken tubes, fender, etc., and didn't realize or didn't NOTICE that the frame was bent.? I had changed it to 4" longer upper tubes since they had to be replaced, and I always wanted a little CHOPPER affect/look myself. The steering was much lighter and easier, and so I attributed it to the longer forks. It was only after riding it another 10 years that way, and attending a rally that a fellow Xsive/bike mechanic took a close look at it, and found the bent frame at the NECK!

I've become accustomed to it's handling ability, quicker/ligher steering and several folks will attest that I can handle it thru the twisties just about as good as anybody, keeping up with the sport bike Xsives that have crossed over . It does get a littel squirrely if I try to get it too much over 100 mph...since it only has about 2" of trail.., but it's fine otherwise.

So...I've also been informed, but have not heeded the advice to fix it back to pure STOCK. Am I at more risk of having a wreck due to the reduced stability, possibly. Also more risk of the welds stress cracking and the front end falling off...possibly, I inspect the neck welds often for signs of stress cracks. So...my bike fits me, I've adapted to it's handling quirks, and probably won't change or fix it. But if it does fail, or I wreck at high speed due to a tankslapper or such..then I only have myself to blame.

SO...feel free to MOD to your hearts content, and "we" will continue to INFORM folks of the possible problems/dangers to such types of mods, but will NOT chastise or browbeat folks if they do perform the mods anyways.

Okay, this soap box is getting rickety, I better step down before I fall down!

[XSokieSPECIAL]

Okay, this soap box is getting rickety, I better step down before I fall down!

Dang it TC......I think that is the longest post I've ever seen come from you that wasn't something......well......technical.

Welcome to the forum.....LOL......


OH NO!........Your wife left the liquor cabinet unlocked, didn't she? ..LOL..

Great to hear from ya bro' and I agree with what you said but at the same time I believe that anyone who TRULY wants to enjoy riding wouldn't even consider hardtailing. And, I will continue to re-enforce that FACT.

And I also believe that a lot of these people who REALLY WANT to ride and are embarking on this journey aren't realizing that the world is FULL of potholes and big a$$ bumps that WILL wreck you, litteraly and physically.

But, That's JUST MY opinion.

IMHO

[cueball]

Why

Shut down the entire HBT forum because of one thread. Close down the thread that is going nowhere except to piss people off. Shutting down the entire forum smacks to me of heavy handed big brotherism, coupled to attitudes that cannot tolerate free expression of opinions.

[Guy_b_g]

I agree with you TC.

I also feel that hard tailing is the wrong way to go, but hey it's their bike.

I get more nervous about people running one front brake, but I can still live with that.

I draw the line at removing all front braking capability...then you are not just endangering yourself but the public at large, and I intend to loose both barrels at anyone who does it. Same as with texting while driving, or drunk driving, or even to a (slightly) lesser degree, talking on a cell phone while driving (or in any dangerous environment).

I don't mean I will call names or be personally insulting, but I will let these people know that they are now infringing on other people's safety (as well as their own) in no uncertain terms.

I won't be riding with people who do these things anyway...I have better uses for my free time than accident reports, first aid, and notifying relatives.

Other than that I will be fine without the HBT forum.

Just my .02 cents.