Broken TCI box wanted

[tommystinson]

Hey Everybody! I'm a new member, just having bought a '79 11 Special. I was reading the Haynes manual and the warning about the ignition module caught my eye. I.E. do not open, no user seviceable parts inside, blah, blah, blah. Mine currently works and is in use, but I would like to get a hold of a broken one to disassemble and evaluate. I'm a Hi-Fi geek and have some hardcore experience with a soldering iron. (Is it possible to have hardcore time with a soldering iron?) If I can identify the components involved, I might be able to start fixing them. Not all japanese components (transistors and such) are readily identifiable or available, but equivalents may be found. If anyone has one for a low cost (and I'll pay for shipping), please let me know. Rock on! Would there even be a market for TCI repair? If I can fix them, I'd probably do it in exchange for spare parts. I love the barter system...

[TopCatGr58]

Hey there Tom,

And welcome to the group!! You are near the location of one of our GURU's there, in Mexico, NY, Gary(66) . I would think that you will get many offers from folks with bad TCI/CDI units, since several have replaced theirs, hopefully they kept their old one!!??

I would think there would be a decent market for being able to repair them, folks would like to be able to have a spare for when their primary one does die! There are different flavors to these units, though, I believe-but I may be wrong...the 78-79 uses one type, the 80-81 another, and the 82 a third?? IIRC, the part numbers start with "2H7", then "4RO", then "10M" respectively! But I could be wrong with the 78-79 and 80-81?? I have an 81, and have seen the different one for the 82, but haven't seen the 78-79 ones to be sure, I'm sure a GURU will correct me on this if I am wrong!!

If you do a search here for TCI or CDI you'll find several threads discussing this, and possibly another fellow...Harley Dave.... who had also offered to evaluate, breakdown the units to see about being able to repair, or create a new one, he's an electrician and recently rebuilt his entire harness eliminating some unnecessary circuits and such.

If you are able to break one down, and get a schematic, that would be great for others that might want to try to build one from scratch...if that's possible!? I believe the prices for new ones are around $100.00, just as a gauge for cost of repair vs. replacement! Good luck.

[dntemp_ca]

Hi, Tom
If you can get ahold of an old regulator / rectifier also, I'm sure XSives would be interested to find out if they can be repaired by replacing internals. It would be cool if someone with hi-tech savvy tore into one.

[tommystinson]

Thanks for the quick reply. I do think it would be possible to build new units, but the blank pc board and connectors would be tough, to say the least. I checked Yamaha and got a price of around $550 for a new one (!?)

Originally posted by TopCatGr58
Hey there Tom,

And welcome to the group!! You are near the location of one of our GURU's there, in Mexico, NY, Gary(66) . I would think that you will get many offers from folks with bad TCI/CDI units, since several have replaced theirs, hopefully they kept their old one!!??

I would think there would be a decent market for being able to repair them, folks would like to be able to have a spare for when their primary one does die! There are different flavors to these units, though, I believe-but I may be wrong...the 78-79 uses one type, the 80-81 another, and the 82 a third?? IIRC, the part numbers start with "2H7", then "4RO", then "10M" respectively! But I could be wrong with the 78-79 and 80-81?? I have an 81, and have seen the different one for the 82, but haven't seen the 78-79 ones to be sure, I'm sure a GURU will correct me on this if I am wrong!!

If you do a search here for TCI or CDI you'll find several threads discussing this, and possibly another fellow...Harley Dave.... who had also offered to evaluate, breakdown the units to see about being able to repair, or create a new one, he's an electrician and recently rebuilt his entire harness eliminating some unnecessary circuits and such.

If you are able to break one down, and get a schematic, that would be great for others that might want to try to build one from scratch...if that's possible!? I believe the prices for new ones are around $100.00, just as a gauge for cost of repair vs. replacement! Good luck.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey there again Tom,

The price I quoted was from an aftermarket supplier like Partsnmore and such.....definitely not from YAMAHA direct!!

Circuit board a problem? Why, you don't have your own acid etching bath to create them?! LOL

And, btw, you don't usually have to quote the entire message here on the FORUM, just the part you want to reply to, if even that, since ALL of the messages are available to be seen and reviewed. Some folks do when there are already several other replies below the one they want to reply to, just to bring attention to what they are replying to!! Just an FYI!

T.C.

[tommystinson]

Etching bath! I phototransfer pc artwork off my laser printer. Sweet. The real issue is drilling all those little holes. I'd need to strip a board bare and use it for a template. But if you can get one for a hundred bucks... That seems more than fair. Since we were discussing electrical, have you heard any thoughts on running higher wattage headlamps? The XS charging system seems pretty robust, and I'm thinking of a 100 watt high beam. For off road use only, of course. The ability to see another 100 yards or so can be pretty valuable in deer/racoon/possum avoidance.

[Racer X]

Drilling small holes?

Not a problem if you are a machinist. (That would be me.)
Small holes a a specialty.
Sounds like a group effort coming together.

[tommystinson]

Making parts is pretty cool. I used to fix CNC machines for a living. (mechanical and electronic repair) Primarily Mazak, Miyano, or Fanuc controls. I can't say that I have all that much experience milling, but I used to make pump shafts on a cylindrical grinder. (plus or minus half a tenth!) Now I fix computer controlled irrigation systems on golf courses. Much better working environment. No spoiled cutting fluid, no metal chips embedded in the soles of your shoes, etc, etc. But I have no place to make any trick billet parts for my bike. Kind of wish I could go back to the first "job shop" I worked at. But then again, that's where I learned to talk like a sailor. (No offense intended to current or former Navy men) If you're up to it, drop me a personal mail and let me know what kind of machining you do.

[TheDjost]

What he needs is a precision computer controlled curcuit board drilling machine.

Circuit boards are not something that you can drill using a standard drill press or drill bit. This stuff is so abrasive that you need special bits, and even those go dull afther a couple of hundred holes. And the drill rig has to be made to process circuit boards, or you'll only be ripping the copper off the fiberglass, and not cutting through it.

The best would be to bring an example board (the messed up one with all parts taken off) to a circuit board prototype maker, and these guys scan it, fix it on the computer and then "print" it back new for usually 20-50 bucks per sheet. One sheet is usually 12 by 10 inches, so you can fit as many copies as you can for the same price.

But I doubt that it has to come to that. Most of the time, all that is needed is to reroute a burnt trace or two with normal wires, and replace a few toasted parts.That's what avionics techs like my father do for a living. If the unit is completelu burnt, like all that's left is the case, toss it and get a new one. It'll be cheaper than to get all the parts to rebuild an old one.



As for higher wattage bulbs in the headlamp, I would worry about heat more than anything. I would go with auxiliary driving lamps that ARE road legal, would have same benifit, and would be aimable, for when offroading. another benifit is when they are not needed, just turn them off to keep the charging system from overheating.

That being said, the XS charging system is not the most robust out there, so count your amps and watts before doing anything.


-Justin

[Mike Hart]

I've had the tci apart. None of the parts have markings or numbers. It's obvious that there are two power transistors that fire the coils, but the other parts? Good luck, I really hope you can figure out what they are, but I'm not holding my breath.

Even the resistors have no color bands. If one has let the smoke out, how do you know what to replace it with? Same with capacitors, and how bout those dip's? Okay, if it works, maybe you can figure it out with a scope on it while running, maybe, maybe not. Not to mention all the different tci's - almost every year and model, different functions/components.

I gotta think home-brewing the rectumfryer will be the easier job. Not to rain on your tci parade, please try if you think you can do it.

As to the charging system on the XS, I have to disagree: it is marginally adequate. That being said, it is not a problem, either power consumption or heat, to run an 80/100 bulb. If you think the XS charging system is 'robust', then I gotta wonder what you rode before your XS... something with a magneto and no lights?

Even the XJ, with its beefier charging system, is still short on juice when it comes to running extra loads. People who have extra lights or whatever have wired switches to make sure the load is only on when the bike is up in revs. As Justin said, figure your loads. In fact, you could search for that here, I think Jerry Fields or someone posted details about that.

Good luck, I hope someone donates the parts.

[TheDjost]

forgot to add

I forgot to add:

Most of the time, with small electronics that are mounted in/on vibrating vehicles, is solder joint breaking. I worked for a year and a half in a C.B. repair shop, and 95% of the work was finding and repairing bad solder joints. I also read on another web site that a guy managed to repair more than one XS/XJ TCI unit without having to replace any part at all. All you need is a keen eye and a lot of skill with a soldering iron.

The problem spots are usually the vertically mouinted sub-curcuits, those are held on just by a row of solder joints. Just re-do all those and put a big glop of silicone on one side of the board to keep it from vibrating.

-Justin

[Racer X]

Originally posted by TheDjost
What he needs is a precision computer controlled curcuit board drilling machine.

Circuit boards are not something that you can drill using a standard drill press or drill bit. This stuff is so abrasive that you need special bits, and even those go dull afther a couple of hundred holes. And the drill rig has to be made to process circuit boards, or you'll only be ripping the copper off the fiberglass, and not cutting through it.

The best would be to bring an example board (the messed up one with all parts taken off) to a circuit board prototype maker, and these guys scan it, fix it on the computer and then "print" it back new for usually 20-50 bucks per sheet. One sheet is usually 12 by 10 inches, so you can fit as many copies as you can for the same price.



-Justin

As for the circuit board drilling machine? Any little mill will do. A CNC is preferable, but not necessary. You can easily make a fixture to hold the board flat to avoid flex. And a carbide drill will work nicely for the drilling portion. Granted, circuit boards are made from rather abrasive materials, but nothing that is unmachineable, even if you have to spend $5.00 more for a TiCn or TiAln coated drill.

[scoobes]

repaired boxs

ther is a fellow in southport england who does repair the black boxes,he had to borrow one of my xs1100s as ther are 3 different ones,at the moment he is trying to make something to ignition so that you do not need to have a vacum advance thingy,it will be done electronicaly, if you need his number for your brocken igniter unit i will speak to him and then forward his no to you .

[Jerry]

I also read on another web site that a guy managed to repair more than one XS/XJ TCI unit without having to replace any part at all.

Had this happen on an '82 XS 400 I had. Bought it for $75.00, black box was dead. Took off the box cover, found a bad solder joint, repaired OK and put bike back on the road. Took a couple hours to remove the box, trace the joints and find the bad one, then reinstall box. Put over 46K on that little bike over the next several years.

[Geezer]

On a related subject, I already have a rectifier replacment for the XS11 but I'm still working on a voltage regulator.

The rectifier I have is rated at 55 amps but the last regulator I tried didn't work for the XS11. I'll post it here when I get it all working.

Geezer