anyone using vista?

[XJOK2PLAY]

Not true. Maybe if you're doing a bunch of of gaming, but we use XP as our standard OS on all our office PC's, and NONE of them have more than 512mb. some even run fine with 256mb. As long as you keep the nasties out of your PC, 512 should be fine for the average user on an XP machine. Vista, OTOH, has a minimum requirement of 1Gb.

No, not a gamer...

I had 2, 1 had an XP home version.... one of the first to come out... a Wally World HP PC... 512 mb.... froze up w/ every move... I hated that boat anchor... found out it was using up 85% of the total 512 mb it had just to idle... w/ no way to turn any of the garbage running in the background off like I could before. So... opened her up, and found there was extra slots for more ram... started trying to add more... never could find ANY compatable ram that would work... not even from HP tech support! A total $600 loss.
On top of that, all it tried to do was send a barage of pop-ups! Nightmare. Definitely not one of B G's finer moments...

Then I bought one from a friend that XP pro... didn't have the pop-ups in that version, but just slow as molasses in the winter time! Again... 512 mb... I was able to increase to 1 GB, and I saw a major improvement after that. If the motherboard had been capable, I'm sure more would've been even better.

My other experience was with the '98 SE PC I'm still running today...
I originally had this PC custom built for my own recording studio... started life as a P2 450 w/ 256 mb.... recording & editing audio tracks was not the smoothest thing at that time w/ that setup.... lots of freezes. I had it totally rebuilt w/ an AMD 1.2 G processor & Motherboard, 1 GB ram... wow! It was amazing how many tracks I could run & simultaineously capture, and how many virtual effects I could also run! It taught me a lot right then & there about computers! Ram is one area where 'more really is more!'

But, don't mean to argue w/ ya CBug... a lot just depends on what you're trying to do with it. It doesn't take much at all just to be a good internet PC or run office software... but capture, edit, etc. audio... and ESPECIALLY video work (DVD's, home movie editing, big files...etc.) and my advice is get all the ram the thing will hold! That's my suggestion... and it comes from personal experience. Especially when someone starts the thread out complaining of freeze ups, then says they're trying to run Vista w/ only 512 mb's of ram...
It's not so much Vista that's the problem... it's how power hungry that OS is... and he doesn't have the goods to properly run it.
I've also been told this by a few professional computer techs...
Once he upgrades, I believe the thing will begin to fly, and he might actually like Vista.
It doesn't matter what OS you have- if you don't have enough ram to even cover the OS's system resource requirements, you won't like that OS!
When the truth is, it's not the fault of the OS at all.

[redbone]

xjok and all, you guys are allrite,
one of the more 'geekier' kids in the class has pretty much confirmed alot of what you guys said that i'm seriously short on RAM. that is the way my comp came from the factory. it is 5 yrs old and 512mb was probly enuff then. i have found a 1gb RAM card on the www for about $27, but i'm gonna open my comp and make sure the cards are the same b4 i order one.

now, can one of you give me a simple lesson on this 16 or 32 or 64 bits that i hear so much about. i know i've heard about it in class, but the teacher goes so goddam fast most of the time that i miss alot of info.
keep it simple if you can, my knowledge of the internal workings of the computer are pretty much nil.
thanks again,
redbone

[redbone]

sorry,
i should have posted this info before maybe you guys can tell me what exact RAM i need. here is my comp info.

dell e 521
processor: amd 64 3200+
memory: 512mb
graphics: nvidia geforce 6150 le
gaming graphics: 128mb total graphic available [fyi, i don't game]
primary hard disk: 32 gb free (64 total)

-32 bit op system
-64 bit capability

if any more info needed please lmk

tx, again
redbone

[Ivan]

Mine is a Toshiba Satellite with 4 gig system memory and 1 gig video with the ability to share the other 4 gig, weird huh?

So, tell me why you can buy 2 x 2gig memory for a laptop for $60, a 16 gig microsd for $50 but a 4gig laptop stick is $300?

Anyway, Win7 x64 works like a champ. More stuff is being ported to 64 bit and the dual core processing is becoming more integrated as well. Startup on this machine is getting near the old dos startup times, seconds rather than minutes. If Adobe would get off their ass and make 64 bit flash, then shiretoko would be the browser to have. It screams...until you want to watch a youtube vid.

Anyway, cure the Unsigned driver issue, and keep the 64 support coming, and Win7 x64 is about as stable and usable as *nix stuff, plus you get to play all the cool games.

Which brings me to another point about data organization, for the OP. When programs install, they kinda choose all by them selves to go to the \programs (x86) folder. I can't figure out why this is necessary, but if they were to install to the normal \Programs folder, the OS will put them under the "Games" button in the right hand pane of the start menu.

And, if you really want to look super cool, get Rocket Dock. Its a program that lets you clean up the desktop by putting all your shortcuts in a dock at the top of the screen (or bottom or side) that hides when not in use. Highly customizable and free. Nothing like having a desktop with no icons to cover up your favorite wallpaper.

[CatatonicBug]

....On top of that, all it tried to do was send a barage of pop-ups! Nightmare.

...a lot just depends on what you're trying to do with it.

Well, the pop-ups are NEVER the fault of the OS. That is because of your browsing habits. If you are getting pop-ups, you have nasties on your PC - guranteed. And those only come from browsing to questionable websites and clicking on things that you shouldn't have. Yes, Myspace and Facebook ARE questionable websites. Limewire is also a nasty app to have, as it leaves you open to other things (I only say this because I see it installed on just about every personal PC I see nowadays).

I do agree though that video editing is just as processor-intensive (or maybe more so) as gaming. If you're doing any of that, you do need more RAM than a standard PC user would need.

[TopCatGr58]

sorry,
i should have posted this info before maybe you guys can tell me what exact RAM i need. here is my comp info.

dell e 521
processor: amd 64 3200+
memory: 512mb
graphics: nvidia geforce 6150 le
gaming graphics: 128mb total graphic available [fyi, i don't game]
primary hard disk: 32 gb free (64 total)

-32 bit op system
-64 bit capability

if any more info needed please lmk

tx, again
redbone

Hey Redbone,

PC ram has changed a lot many times over the years. I recently worked on a Dell very similar to your system...a DIMENSION E521, and it uses DDR2 ram, a different design compared to DDR1 ram!!. The Single alignment notch cut into the ram chip is in a slightly offset position compared to the DDR1 chips, and they are not interchangeable. A doctor that I work with has the same type of computer, and he upgraded to 2Gb or such. He gave me his old 256MB chips, and they wouldn't work/fit on/in any Mobo that used DDR style ram.

I finally had the chance to work on another coworker's DELL, and they only had 512MB ram...two 256 mb chips, but had 2 slots open. I put 2 of the spare 256 chips in for a total of 1GB, and WinXP worked much better!

I found what type of ram your system needs thru the model #, but with the SERVICE tag #, you can check their SUPPORT section to find out WHAT SPEED your chips are so you can either get matching speeds. If you get slower speed chips, then they will drag/slow down the speed of your present faster chips to the slower chips speed! .

I'll try to answer your other questions as well! As to your Video Memory, it has the ability to use 128MB of system ram...it's ONBOARD video using SHARED memory. A lot of the need for decent amounts of video ram isn't just for gaming, but now with increasing video screen sizes, along with color rates of 16 or even 24/32 bit TRUE COLOR..only really needed IF you do REAL PROFESSIONAL PHOTO editting, otherwise, 16 bit is plenty. In color possibilities, the old 8 bit...think of your base 2 counting....
2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2=256, so 8 bit was limited to 256 colors. Now, expand that to 16 bit: 2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2= ~64,000 colors.

Now, take your screen res...ie. 1920 x 1080 =2,073,600 pixels, each capable of displaying 1 of 64k colors....that's 132,710,400,000. There are 8 bits in 1 byte, this gives 16,588,800,000 bytes, or 16MB for 1 SCREEN full of pixels. Then with GAMING...albeit they usually don't run at that HIGH of a resolution, usually about 800 x 600 or so, but can still be several MB's for 1 screen, and then with the action of gaming, refreshing that screen every 16th to 30th of a second frame rate....you can see and understand the need for a fair amount of RAM to be able to load and display the images on the screen.
However, you don't GAME! Also, if you set your video display properties to 16 bit color vs. the 24/32 bit, that can reduce the amount of memory it needs for the same size images. You'll need to go into the BIOS of the computer to tell it how much System Ram you want it to use for VIDEO....ie. down to 64MB or even 32MB if you want.

As for the advances in processors....they started with 8 bit, then advanced to 16, then 32, and now 64bit. I'm no engineer, but the simple way it was explained to me, think of a highway with just 2 lanes of traffic, 1 coming, one going. That might be like 4 bit, 2 bits for each direction of traffic. There's a max amount of traffic, speed that it can handle. Now enlarge it to a 4 lane, 2 coming and going=8bit, twice as fast, the CPU can process and send and receive twice as much data at the same time. Now expand it to 8 lanes...=16 bit, now to 16 lanes=32 bit, and then to 32 lanes, 64 bit. The OS can utilize the 64 bit processors ability to process all 32 lanes of data at the same time, so it can send out commands and such much faster than the smaller 32 bit OS's. However, as was stated, until both the hardware makers and the software makers "port" their designs to capitalize on the ability to use ALL 32 lanes, then the CPU and the OS can work as efficient or fast as it's capable of.

I was running a homebuilt Win98SE(16bit) system with a AMD 2100XP(32bit) CPU, 512Mb Ram built in 2002, upgraded to WinXP(32bit) and 1GB ram, and updated the Video Editting software, but it still took like 15 minutes to process a 10 minute full DVD res 720x480 video clip.

This last year, I built a new system, an Intel duo core 3GB CPU, kept WinXP, put in 4GB ram..I know, WinXP only recognizes 3.25GB of that, but was able to get a newer copy of the program that was written to utilize the duo-core processor's ability, and the processing time was cut to 5 minutes!

I didn't want to put out the $$ for a 64BIT CPU/MOBO as well as OS because not many software makers were making/programming much in 64bit mode. As your specs state, your CPU is 64bit capable, but whether you go that route will depend on how you want to use your computer, the software you need, etc.!

Others with more FORMAL training, feel free to correct, add, etc. to the above simple explanation!

T.C.

[redbone]

hey TC,
that was an excellent description of the 'bits/traffic'. it's crystal clear now.
makes me wonder why the teacher doesn't make it that simple. some of the other stuff still a little beyond me but i'll figure that out sooner or later.
some time in the next couple hours, i'm gonna open this computer and check to see exaclty what kind of RAM card is in there. you will probly hear from me again with more quests when i get a look at it.
thanks again,
redbone

[mro]

it's crystal clear now.

Just to add some confusish

4-bit microprocessors were developed in the early 1970s starting with the Intel 4004

Our computer technology is based on a binary system, 0 and 1 (note the 2 below)
32 bit cpu, = 32-bit register size (amount of ram it can access, 2 to the 32 power) or 4GB of RAM)
64 bit cpu, can access, 2 to the 64 power, or approximately 17.2 billion gigabytes of RAM.

Just to make your head spin a little, the cpu 32 bit architecture of the Pentium had a 64 bit external data bus but being a 32 bit system can address only 4,294,967,295 bits of data (4 GB). But do to limits on both the hardware and software it was limited to just a few MB’s of ram. Early 64 bit cpu’s did not necessarily have all the features available to a true 64 bit system. Win 7 professional or what ever it’s called can utilize up to only 192 GB of ram and that’s only if you could find a motherboard to accommodate it.

64-bit enables applications to work with a lot of data and load that info into main memory, allowing manipulation of really big data structures. RAM memory costs and the cost to make it accessible to a cpu limit what we have now and with the exception of a few scientific and professional programs massive amounts of ram are not needed. A system with 2 GB gets along just fine with most programs and if more is needed it uses virtual memory (memory space on the hard drive set aside which the running program will load with data that it “thinks” it may need so it does not have to hunt thru the hard drive FAT to find it allowing the virtual memory to be swapped to and from the ram memory faster). Of course more ram allows less swapping so things should execute faster.

Back in the day when I got my first 8 bit cpu, (intel 8080) and then up-graded it to 256 KB’s of ram and then a math co-processor I thought I was really cooking. Today my video card gpu has more transistors than my Intel cpu and more ram than my mother board…

Next I’d like to have a terabyte of “on die ram” and solid state hard drive that does not loose its memory when the power is shut off, as well as a cpu that uses photons rather than electrons coupled with an OS that could read my mind so I would not have to type.
Then this little note would be 50 times longer to cover just a few of the things glossed over or omitted.

mro