The Abundant Ground

[Larrym]

Ok. So today I come out from the grocery store and hop in my truck, turn the ignition key and: Rrrr...Rrr.....Clickety....click-click-click.

Gawd!! I'm a trained and experienced auto mechanic but that isn't exactly helpful at that moment. You're only as good as the tools and test equipment you have on hand and my shop is miles away. Also the training to diagnose any starting/charging system makes you aware that it could be any number of expensive parts. (Groan...)

What is it this time is a question that would have to wait until I get to diagnose it myself. There's an auto shop just down the street which can hook up to the truck and supposedly diagnose the system for $45 but I've been there and done that in other vehicles. The end result was a bill for hundreds of dollars for replacing multiple expensive parts because the diagnostic machine couldn't figure out just which part was bad. Couldn't get there anyways cause the darned truck won't start in the first place. Didn't want to waste one the the AAA tows to have the truck moved 4 city blocks.

Ok..Got jumper cables. Time to dig them out of the compartment, open the hood, and stand there in the rain with them in hand with a "please come to my aid o gentle being" look on my face. Is it the battery? What about the starter?? Could it be my alternator? I'd rather do that than the starter with all than crawling under the truck....Gawd!!!!!

So I tried something I learned a long time ago from a fellow mechanic. He called it "The Abundant Ground." I clipped the jumper cable negative to the proper battery post and then connected the other negative end to a known good ground point on the engine. Turned the ignition key again and Click-Vroom-Vroom. Yeah!!!! (There's just something menacing about being in a parking lot with a non-functional vehicle....seen way too many scary movies I guess.)

Back at the shop I did all the proper system checks and they were within acceptable ranges. But then when I shut the engine off and tried to restart it I got the Click-click-click again. Did the "abundant ground" technique and then "vroom-vroom". So it was a repeatable problem with a repeatable solution. I did a resistance check of the negative battery cable to the engine block and got continuity and a low resistance reading. Hah!! Been there before so I know that even though the test equipment may say there's a good connection, when the large currents needed to operate the starter need to pass through it just doesn't happen. Removed and cleaned the cable to engine block connection and everything worked time after time again and again.

Call it a day. A good day where I didn't have to buy a new battery, starter, alternator and install them. Free from tow trucks, auto repair shop lobbies, and the bills. I did have to clean a connection and I won't moan about that. But I found that problematic connection/cable by using the "Abundant Ground" technique. I tried it and it worked to get me out of the parking lot. Same technique would work on our bikes in a similar situation where there was a starting problem related to a faulty ground connection. Might save some people a lot of chasing down gremlins and trying to fix the problem by throwing in new batteries and the like.

For the record I would have called the technique the "Redundant" ground. But that's not what the guy who showed it to me called it. Gonna stick that name. Thanks to you, "James."

[Ivan]

The proper way to test battery cables is with a load tester, not an ohm meter. Just like batteries, they fail under high current loads.

One end of the load tester on the positive terminal of the starter and one on engine ground and crank down the load screw. If its a ford with an external solenoid, you'll have to activate the solenoid to make it work.

[Larrym]

no battery load tester in the current tool inventory. Have to deduce bad cables/batts using old school and indirect methods.

There's always some new tool or piece of equipment I'd wish for Santa to bring. Battery load tester isn't in my top ten.

Thanks, Ivan.

[XJOK2PLAY]

Larrym,
That's good, solid advice. The best thing I took from your example was how you kept a level head in a stressful situation... and you used training & intelligence to think your way out of the problem. Mark of a good mechanic.

Years ago, when I was but a young pup and asst. mechanic @ Tulsa Cable TV's fleet garage... I was handed a 2# hammer by the foreman, told that one of our biggest trucks (Goliath was it's name... 700 series Ford bucket) was up the street and the starter had quit. He hands the hammer to me as my only 'tool'... says, "Go get one more start out of him & bring it back to the shop, we'll swap the starter here." I have to tell ya, I thought he was as stupid as everybody else was saying he was...

But, he taught me a big lesson... that can really get you out of a jamb if the starter fails... have someone turn the key to the start position and hold while at the same time smacking the starter w/ the 2# on the side... unbelievable, but it works. And it worked that time as well. Instead of having to drop it on the road, we did it in the shop with all the nice airtools... professionally.

I loved that job... everyday was a new challenge. There were only 3 of us, and we kept a fleet of 151 vehicles clean, serviced, and maintained. Because we did our jobs, the cable guys could go do theirs. We made a difference... and we were an asset to that company.

That "stupid" foreman turned out to be pretty smart when it came to knowing some tricks of the trade! And he taught me a lot about being a 'good' mechanic. Thanks, Rodney Campbell. I owe ya.

[DGXSER]

Yep Bob, same trick will work for a fuel pump...if you can get to it. ITs a bad spot in the windings. I had a Toyota pickup that I had to turn the key about 20-30 times..sometimes...others one turn and start. Just a matter of it hitting that bad spot or not, and turning the key seemed to move it just enough to eventually get past it. It was a spare vehicle so I used it that way for a while.

[XSokieSPECIAL]

I lived in Seattle and Port Angeles both for short periods.

It NEVER rains in Washington. Does it?LOL

[oseaghdha]

Git 'er home

I've had numerous vehicles over the years and have only had to walk away a couple of times.

Once upon a time, a friend had helped me do the clutch on my Firebird and neglected to finish tightening the u-bolts on the rear of the driveshaft.

Later that night, or more correctly, early the next morning (following an evening of 100 proof/100 octane fun), the u-joint shook loose and dropped the shaft. The caps and one u-bolt went disappearro into the dark of the night.

There we was, me and Davey....... actually, it was just me at that point.
Frontage road in far N ABQ at 2:30AM. Nobody for miles and miles, except a few coyotes and the usual County Sheriff types that show up at the wrong time, asking the wrong questions. "What are you doing out here? Have you been drinking? ............Do you have any weapons?"

I wasn't up for a conversation at the moment.

Anyway, I rooted around and found a spare u-bolt in my toolbox, and took a couple of 9/16 sockets for the caps, screwed it all back together and eased it back to the house, about 40 miles away. The balance wasn't so very good, but it by God rolled! And the car and I both got to sleep at the house that night.

Moral of the story: Don't quit on it, and carry a lot of random junk in your tool box! Oh, and check everything yourself.

[Ivan]

I used to own a Fiat. I carried the spare starter in the rear trunk, and the valve shim kit behind the seat. The tools and gasket maker were in the front trunk, and the Baccardi went in the spare tire well that had been converted to a subwoofer box. The spare clutch went in behind the valveshim kit and extra oil and coolant were tarp strapped in the engine compartment.

With all that, it would almost make the 60 mile trip between McCook NE and Atwood KS. Some times, it wouldn't.

If I had another, I would put an XS11 engine in it and enjoy the extra power and reliability!

[XS1100 Newbie]

Hey Greg
It is sunny today in Vancouver, WA.. I have not started the teardown yet, so the MNS is going out to get some vitamin d from the sun today.

[Larrym]

Follow up..

Was raining yesterday and is still raining today here at the border between WA and Canadia. Truth be told, this did have an impact on my state of mind when the truck failed to start. Still does today.(Grrrrh!!)

So it really was the bad/corroded negative battery cable connection where it bolted to the engine block. No problems today and I went ahead and re-checked my system this afternoon. Just a note that with the bad connection the running/charging voltage only reached 14.20. Afterwards the readings are at 14.50 just where I'd like it to be. So I can deduce that the bad connection not only limited the current available to the starter but also affected the way the alternator "mis-read" the batteries condition and under charged accordingly.

If I hadn't been so GrrrrH!!!! yesterday, I probably would have performed another test before I actually zeroed in on the engine block connection and cleaned it. I would have placed the leads from my DVM on the negative battery post and on the engine block with the meter set to read DC volts. Then I would have tried to crank the starter. The DVM would have read a voltage between the two points because of the voltage drop due to the resistance of the bad connections. Less direct than using a load tester but still would'a confirmed that the problem was in that area.

Another troubleshooting technique sorta applicable to our bikes. HTH someone.... someday.