TC Bros

[Crazcnuk]

Of course it is, but generally it's the OP who gets pissed off when they don't get all pats on the back.

This then starts a flame war...

As was mentioned several times we ALL have opinions, and when asked, many will give them.

If you are not sure how you will react to negative reactions, I would be very careful about what you ask.

"This site is about XS/XJ motorcycles. It's not just for "purists" or dedicated "restorers"

And this is what is odd about this site. I don't know of any other enthusiast sites that will warmly welcome people destroying the object of the forums.

I don't think you can call the site an enthusiast site if you don't mind people destroying the bike in question.

I'll ask over in the ST forums what they would think of turning an ST1100 into a hardtail 'bobber'.

[prometheus578]

Well here I must disagree.

...but generally it's the OP who gets pissed off when they don't get all pats on the back.

Usually... it's been my observation that the person who gets all worked up first is the guy who offers a contrary position and then continues to drive it home every chance he gets.
There's nothing wrong with stating an opinion, but to continue to beat someone over the head with it... especially when the opinion revolves around something that is none of the person's business anyway, gets tiresome quickly.
(That goes for opinions about hard-tails... as well as opinions about expressing opinions)

If you are not sure how you will react to negative reactions, I would be very careful about what you ask.

Most people are not asking for anything, least of all, permission or acceptance, from someone who has no viable connection to the issue.

I don't think you can call the site an enthusiast site if you don't mind people destroying the bike in question.

"Destroying" is such a subjective and emotionally-laden term.


The Home Page and the Information Page state:

This site is offered as a place to get useful information about the Yamaha XS1100 and XJ1100 motorcycles.
...we're a bunch of people who currently own, used to own, or are just interested in either the Yamaha XS1100 or XJ1100 motorcycles.

Now, while I suppose this could be construed as an "enthusiast" site... nowhere is it written, nor intoned, that what members do with their own bikes has to conform with the wishes of others.

[fredintoon]

- - - (That goes for opinions about hard-tails... ) - - -

Hi prom,
the fact about hardtailing a swingarm-framed bike is that doing so makes the bike less comfortable to ride and worsens it's cornering capacity.
Just so you know my opinion, here's a rant I posted a while back:-
"Why stop at hardtailing? Go all the way! Rake the frame, stretch the forks, remove the front brake, fit a peanut tank painted up like a US flag, smoke some dope and pretend you are Peter Fonda."

[crazy steve]

Y'know, some of these comments sound like something you'd hear from a prim old-maid aunt... 'Hmmph... proper people don't do that..'

Reminds me of some of the attitudes I see over on the Jag board. Although they did admit reality slightly by putting up a 'Lumps' forum so they wouldn't have to confront this in the 'normal' forums. A 'lump' is a derisive term for a modified Jag with an American V-8 swapped in (i.e. 'you took out that fine British motor for an American iron lump?') and is looked down upon in varying amounts by the purists, with the more hard-core sounding like some of the comments posted here. The lumpers like to point out that the reason they're looking down is because the purists are on a car-hauler watching as they drive by, and that 'lump' stands for 'less upkeep, more power'.

So, maybe the answer is a 'hardtail' forum; those guys can swap tips/opinions and the 'purists' can avoid/ignore them...

[cywelchjr]

Hey, I'll tell em I think it's stupid to do it, particularly if it was a good looking good running bike. But at the same time, if it's a good looking build, I'll complement them on the look, even if I don't agree with what they did.

And if they took something that was already cut up (which some have done) and do a nice chopper/bobber out of it, they have my blessing, although I still think it's foolish to do a true hardtail. Now if someone did one that LOOKED like a hardtail while maintaining a rear suspension (amazingly they did that once on american choppers) that's really cool. Cause I do have to admit, the hardtail look can make for a nice looking bike, but I would never want to ride one further than to the nearest bar (and then the back pain would probably drive me to drinking).

I forget who it was on here, that did the unchopped bobber. It was a really cool build, and he achieved the look of a bobber without actually cutting anything off the frame. And t99ford and his cafe bike, I don't know if he actually cut anything off, but the build is pretty awesome! There are plenty of junk frames out there that a title can be had for, that can be used for this type of build, I just hate to see the limited number of these bikes reduced even further. And don't get me going on the junkyards and ebay shops that break up and sell bikes that are in far better shape than mine, just because they can get more money for them that way, and to make it worse, they think just an engine is worth more than the full value of a complete bike? Huh?

Yeah we're opinionated, you as well as the rest of us. But I don't see a problem with a good discussion with someone, as long as we keep it civil.

I think the problem for those doing the hardtailing, is that frankly this in about the only place they can come for advice on the mechanicals, because most of the community that does those things are chopping HD's, with not a lot of them doing Japanese bikes, and unfortunately a lot of those guys look down on anybody with a rice burner, it's unfortunate, since we all have the same passion for our rides.

With that note, I would rather see someone hardtail an XS11 that break it up and sell all the parts. At least a portion of the bike is staying around and being maintained.

[malber]

So, maybe the answer is a 'hardtail' forum; those guys can swap tips/opinions and the 'purists' can avoid/ignore them...

I think this would be about as successful as the "Hot Topics" forum.

[prometheus578]

Hard Tail Forum?

Now, I don't wanna ruffle anybody's tail feathers... especially their hard-tail feathers... but let me point out several reasons why having a Hard-Tail Forum wouldn't solve the issue of people tossing about opinions that weren't requested nor needed, Crazy Steve.

Firstly, let me state that when it comes to opinions, there's three types of people:
Those who's opinions matter to no one.
Those who hold valid opinions on a particular subject.
Those who feel their opinions are all that should matter to everyone else.

(Now again, I'm just trying to stay a neutral observer in all this. I'm not putting any of the current posters in any of the above categories. If someone takes offense to what I've written, it would be because THEY placed themself in a certain category, not me.)

Now then, Crazy Steve... let's look at some numbers. Out of 6,000 registered members (active, inactive, etc), I could probably count the number that have done Hard-Tail conversions on the fingers of one... well, almost the fingers of one finger. The percentage would be quite small... what, maybe five conversions... which would work out to around a percentage of "who cares". Hardly worth the one minute's strenuous work to open a new forum.

Ya see, Steve, there's two types of opinion: Logical, fact-based opinion and opinion based purely on emotion.
And just as there's two types of opinion, there's also two types of what I'll call "Opinion Givers", which also follows the criteria previously mentioned.
Regardless of the "forum", one type will post a view that is pertinent and on topic and the other type may post a view just to hear the keyboard keys go clickety clack.

As a simple exercise, let's examine this thread and see if this holds true.

By scrolling back, one can see that this thread was started by Nate, over a year ago... with the express purpose of inquiring if anyone had any business dealings with an outfit called "TC Bros. Nate, it seems, was interested in purchasing some forward controls for his bike.
Now, as any astute reader can discern, this thread quickly jumped into the realm of off topic opinion, despite several attempts to get it back on track by the original poster and several like-minded individuals.
Now, we all know and accept that threads sometimes drift a little off topic, but as long as they steer the same general course...
Sadly, this thread was hijacked, sailed off in a new direction where it struck a reef and foundered.

Fast forward a year...
The ship has been repaired and is on her way once again, this time with ManitoulinLad at the helm. He reports good dealings with the TC Bros, is pleased with his forward controls, and sees nothing but clear skies and smooth seas ahead.
Ahhh.. but here come the pirates again to toss everything overboard like so much flotsam (or is it jetsam... I'm not really too keen on nautical jargon)

Anyway, Crazy Steve... I guess the point I'm trying to state is that regardless of forum or topic, opinionated people will always weigh in with their views... hopefully factually based or otherwise well thought out. sadly, we know that that's not always the case.



Uhmm, as a brief aside...
I would like to thank Andreas Weiss for being a cold-heart butcher who breaks up bikes and sells all the parts. Were it not for his evil ways, a large number of members on this site wouldn't have running bikes at all.

[b.walker5]

Uhmm, as a brief aside...
I would like to thank Andreas Weiss for being a cold-heart butcher who breaks up bikes and sells all the parts. Were it not for his evil ways, a large number of members on this site wouldn't have running bikes at all.

Amen to that. All Heil Andreas.

[cywelchjr]

Uhmm, as a brief aside...
I would like to thank Andreas Weiss for being a cold-heart butcher who breaks up bikes and sells all the parts. Were it not for his evil ways, a large number of members on this site wouldn't have running bikes at all.

Naw, Andreas breaks down badly distressed bikes that are no longer road worthy, which may or may not be worth trying to fix (probably not), my problem is with the vendors (mainly on ebay) who post a video of the bike running, and maybe being ridden where the bike is in better condition than many of the bikes being ridden as daily riders. Big difference between the two IMHO. Bringing one back from the grave is something that can only be done as a labor of love, I would never expect someone to do it as a business.

[jmnjrpa]

Hardtail thread

I agree that it wouldn't make any difference and would have so few participants as to border on asinine. Also, the point of hijacking is well stated.

However pigeonholing anyone due to ones perception of them based merely on posts they have rendered or not is unjust.

opinionated people will always weigh in with their views

As I have not commented on the issue and will not merely because there are no points that have not been fully "discussed". I feel no need to amplify an opinion that has already been stated. The demeanor in which one discusses such topics cannot be fully realized by reading a post. As humans we consider far more than speech (intonations, eye contact, body language, etc...) when evaluating said speech. True it may be that within a post we are limited to words that are written even though the words may have come from a less than articulate individual. This being the case I feel as humans we should allow the autonomy (as Prom is doing now) to fully understand all positions.

[crazy steve]

... but let me point out several reasons why having a Hard-Tail Forum wouldn't solve the issue of people tossing about opinions that weren't requested nor needed...

Prom, that comment was posted entirely tongue-in-cheek

I know that if that was done, somebody would go there to stir s**t, human nature being what it is...

[prometheus578]

Jmnjrpa... I couldn't have said it better myself.
Crazy Steve... yup, there's no changin' human nature.

Now, unless anyone has any comments on the TC Bros'. business practices or forward controls in general... I suggest that it's time we all move on to other things.

[ManitoulinLad]

Well said Prometheus578. I was trying to do a good thing. I didn't realize I kicked a hornets nest. - Dan

[cywelchjr]

I think what would be cool, would be if someone were able to figure out how to have forward controls AND retain the stock control location as well. I'd like to be able to stretch out but still have the controls available to me while stretched out, but be able to switch bad to the normal stance and still have controls. So far it seems that you must choose one or the other, you don't seem to be able to have both.

Hey, what can I say, I want to have my cake and eat it too.

[fredintoon]

I think what would be cool, would be if someone were able to figure out how to have forward controls AND retain the stock control location as well. I'd like to be able to stretch out but still have the controls available to me while stretched out, but be able to switch bad to the normal stance and still have controls. So far it seems that you must choose one or the other, you don't seem to be able to have both.
Hey, what can I say, I want to have my cake and eat it too.

Hi Cy,
they make airplanes with dual controls, eh?
Not only computer controlled fly-by-wire airliners but little Cessnas that still have steel cable controls.
Just because you can't buy them don't mean they are hard to make.
I built a dual control for my rear and sidecar brakes, for instance.
PM me your postal address and I'll draw up some sketches and mail them to you.