Cage Question

[DGXSER]

I have a 1999 Toyota Camry with the V6 engine and 156,000 on the clock. The short version of the story is, it blows a cloud on start up and uses a good bit of oil. Toyota diagnosed it with the "oil gel" issue. But after the time span of the law suit settlement so I get a dry, no kiss treatment!

My question is this, it runs fine, really does not lack power at all. I am thinking the approach should be the same as any other engine, run a compression check and see if the rings are shot with the oil in the cylinder method as needed. Then try to clean the engine up with either Seafoam in the oil, or perhaps the noted Marvel Mystery Oil that I had never heard of till this site and have never used. And perhaps it may just wind up needing valve guides. The current direction is a new long block. Seems like a harsh diagnosis for one that is running still. But I know it will be cheaper to put a used long block in than to rebuild this one.

I welcome any thoughts or alternate solutions!!

[tw1980]

Many of the import shops sell imported Japanese engines with 50,000 miles on them.I put one in my daughters acura.I guess they have to be replaced there to meet emission standards. Terry

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Dgxser,

With an engine that's been running,etc., I don't think you would want or need to use seafoam or MMO. These are more for engines that have SAT for many years, and have gotten their oil rings GUMMED UP which could be sticking to the piston. Sounds more like your engine is just worn, and so you get a fair amount of oil past the oil rings into the combustion chamber.

I've not heard of this "OIL GEL" issue? If they are saying it is sludged up, possibly? You didn't say whether you've had this Camry for the 150k miles life of it, or if you just got it? If you've owned it, then I'm sure you've done proper oil and filter changes, so again, don't know if the oil gel issue would apply here??

Using an Engine flush treatment would be similar to using seafoam or MMO prior to doing an oil/filter change, remember NO LOAD on engine, just idle up to normal temps, idle for 5 minutes and then drain!

How much oil is a fair amount that it's eating/burning...like a quart a week or more like 1 a month!?

Are you using synth oils vs DINO? Synth tends to be able to leak past seals and rings easier than DINO. Might also try going up a grade/weight than you usually run.

I've also used those oil additives like Motor Honey or such with modest success in keeping the mosquito fogging effect down on some old engines!
There's also that other engine overhaul in a can stuff, can't remember if it has graphite or such that is supposed to fill in the fine wear grooves and such on the cylinder walls to help the rings seal better!? YMMV!
T.C.

[petejw]

Het Dgxser,
A cloud of smoke on start up usually indicates
worn valve stem seals, the oil tends to leak past them over nite and hence the cloud of smoke on start up,
another way to check is have some one drive behind you, accelerate the engine and then suddenly back off the throttle, the engine will smoke if the valve seals/guides are worn.

[DGXSER]

Terry, luckily here in Ohio, or at least where I live in Ohio, we no longer have the e-checks. At least not for now we don't.

Pete, I will try that next chance I get. I know it seems to blow a little bit while driving before it gets warmed up at least. which may tell me its the rings as well now.

As usual TC, you ask some good questions and here are my best answers.

I've not heard of this "OIL GEL" issue? If they are saying it is sludged up, possibly?

Toyota settled out of court on a class action law suit on this problem with the Camry V6 engines. Basically they say the oil "gels" up and the engine needs to be replaced. Like it bakes into a goo on the walls or something.

You didn't say whether you've had this Camry for the 150k miles life of it, or if you just got it? If you've owned it, then I'm sure you've done proper oil and filter changes, so again, don't know if the oil gel issue would apply here??

I have owned it since 250 miles roughly. Yes, change oil about every 3,000 miles and filter as well. Always used Castrol GTX 5W30 or 10W30 I forget which that one takes.

Using an Engine flush treatment would be similar to using seafoam or MMO prior to doing an oil/filter change, remember NO LOAD on engine, just idle up to normal temps, idle for 5 minutes and then drain!

That is my thought to use something that would flush out this "oil gel" and let me see what kind of compression and ring seal is left with it gone.

How much oil is a fair amount that it's eating/burning...like a quart a week or more like 1 a month!?

About one quart for maybe 200 miles. or a week basically.

My goal here is to have a car my daughter can drive for a few years or so and be relatively dependable. So I am not necessarily looking to spend a ton on a car with 156,000 miles on it, but then I don;t want my daughter running round on bailing wire and chewing gum (like I did with my first cars) either.

[crazy steve]

Sounds like valve guides; does it also smoke on deceleration, say go down a long hill and then it puffs when re-applying throttle? If it does, that's classic bad guides.

Something that may be worth a try is to install an 'umbrella' style valve guide seal. That used to be the trick on the Chev and Chrysler motors; install Ford seals and it would reduce oil usage for a time (usually about 10-15K mi). You would have to see if these would fit the Camry. But first I'd try using a thicker oil like a 15-50 or even 20-50 and also use an oil rated for diesel use. If you're in a warm enough climate, maybe even straight 30 wt. Most of the additives for oil-burning are nothing more than 'viscosity improvers' i.e. they thicken the oil, so just swap to thicker oil and save some money.

But none of these things will stop oil use, just slow it down....

'78E original owner

[XJOK2PLAY]

Dgxser...

Gotta go with the crowd on this one, too. Sounds like guides or seals. Smoke all the time usually means rings. Has the engine ever been hot? I've driven Toyotas for a while now, and I've heard of this situation you're talking about. But sometimes it's merely because somewhere in the past it got hot, which usually buckles the seals/ scores the guides. Man... a quart every 200 miles? At today's prices on oil, you'd need to swing a deal with a Shiek to keep up with the cost...LOL. Toyota's are tough though. I love 'em. Good luck.
Bob

[DGXSER]

Thanks for all the info. No the car has never gotten hot that I know of, (SWMBO has been the primary driver for the last few years).

[DiverRay]

tw1980 said:

Many of the import shops sell imported Japanese engines with 50,000 miles on them.I put one in my daughters acura.I guess they have to be replaced there to meet emission standards.

I second this solution if you can buy an engine locally. We have a store here in California that has been importing drivetrain parts for over twenty years. I've bought three engines from them, and had very good luck with them. I think the V6 is about $750 here, but I'm not positive.
I WOULD try the seafoam in the oil, run at idle for about tem minutes, and drain oil and filter. If you use the whole pint can, it WILL clean everything, and it may soften up the valve seals so they work better.

[DGXSER]

The best price I have so far on a used engine (it is the 1MZ) is actually importing from Japan and its is $1400. I know that will turn into $2000 by the time I get it swapped out in miscilaneous cost. So, with nothing to lose on this engine, I figure try something.