"Closed", it said.

[fredintoon]

Hi Prom,
there's facts and there's opinions.
In fact, all I know about the 911 incident is what I saw on TV, what I read in the papers and that it happened on my wife's birthday.
OTOH,
in my opinion there is no lie that a government (mine, yours, anybody's) would not tell to cover up it's own incompetence, greed or cowardice.

[prometheus578]

Truer words have never been spoken, Fred.
Ya see... what makes a conspiracy is a bunch of people sitting around, making decisions that will, in some manner, just benefit them.
Now, we... the little people, don't believe that this is a conspiracy for several reasons.
Firstly... because we're not really involved in the decision making process.
And secondly... because since we don't behave like that... we can't believe that there's other people who would think that way.
That our Govt. would ruthlessly kill 3,000 people in those towers makes sense to me. "Why not? They're anonomous.... they're not our kin-folk. Who cares?"
The same disregard for human life vs. profit is evident in the fact that their decisions also gave us 4/5,000 dead soldiers and several hundred thou death Iraqis... whom they don't care about, either.
Simple, when one thinks about it.
Conspiracies... Lies... Like, uhm... Weapons of Mass Destruction? Nuclear capabilites? Sadaam's kid pushing people into industrial meat grinders?
(Same as the Kuwaiti babies/ incubator fraud from the first Gulf War) All those grand stories to get the people riled up.
People are gullible, Fred.
"Smart" people too stupid to realize how ignorant they are... Can't handle the fact that in the "Big Picture" of things... they're not in focus.
The easily led... being fed the easy answers... keeps them content.
To have to admit to themselves that there's more going on around them (and that they're not "in the know") would shatter too many reality bubbles. Too painful to contemplate.
That Madoff investment swindle. (Conspiracy between him and his sons, etc) How many "investors" didn't think that it was possable?
"Oh, my money's safe... it's not possable that I could be swindled... no body thinks that way."
Sorry, clown... people DO think differently than you do!
Happens all the time.
People only recognise the horror and crimes that they themselves can commit.
That people can commit worse crimes... is beyond their comprehension.
"It's just not possable."

[oseaghdha]

Occam's razor AKA KISS

Occam's razor, (also Ockham's razor), is a principle attributed to the 14th-century English logician and Franciscan friar, William of Ockham. The principle states that the explanation of any phenomenon should make as few assumptions as possible, eliminating those that make no difference in the observable predictions of the explanatory hypothesis or theory. The principle is often expressed in Latin as the lex parsimoniae ("law of parsimony", "law of economy", or "law of succinctness"): entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem, roughly translated as "entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity." An alternative version Pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate translates "plurality should not be posited without necessity."

When multiple competing hypotheses are equal in other respects, the principle recommends selecting the hypothesis that introduces the fewest assumptions and postulates the fewest entities. It is in this sense that Occam's razor is usually understood.

Originally a tenet of the reductionist philosophy of nominalism, it is more often taken today as an heuristic maxim (rule of thumb) that advises economy, parsimony, or simplicity, often or especially in scientific theories.

[crazy steve]

[QUOTE .....In fact, all I know about the 911 incident is what I saw on TV, what I read in the papers.....

....in my opinion there is no lie that a government (mine, yours, anybody's) would not tell to cover up it's own incompetence, greed or cowardice.[/QUOTE]

First off Fred, be glad you live in a country that still has at least the sembalance of a free press, not one where the media is owned or controlled by-and-large by the same people whose interests is to keep the 'people' in the dark.

Second, limiting your opinion to government is a bit narrow; corporate lying (also enshrined as 'advertising') is every bit as endemic. Read 'Venus' Inc' by Fred Pohl and C.M. Kornbluth to see what their 'vision' is.

The only thing I hold against the British Commonwealth is Rupert Murdoch...

'78E original owner

[crazy steve]

..... and maybe that 'you're our colony' thing...

'78E original owner

[DGXSER]

You know, I guess the way I look at it is kind alike the AA concept. I accept that I trust nothing I am told by anyone unless I see it with my own eyes. I believe in God cause I gotta believe in somethin to stay sane, think its workin??

I have courage to change the things I can, but realize that all of the crap you all are talkin about aint it!!..There aint sh%& we can do to effect one bit of it, never has been, and never will be until you get enough money to get their attention and the only way to get that is to be part of the game your complaining about!

So....we can continue to rattle on about how horrible it is and what a waste it is, or we can relax, enjoy what we got, and do the things we preach for others to do leadin by example and hope some of it catches on.

Open to suggestions as to how we can FEASABLY change the crap your carrying on about. Hell we still don't know for sure who the flok shot JFK, give up on stuff like the WTC. And if we will forgive and forget Clinton leading us on a wild frickin goose chase over what the definition of is...is. And even further have Billary STILL part of our frickin govt. Sh&* I give up!!! There is NO hope for us!

[crazy steve]

....or we can relax, enjoy what we got, and do the things we preach for others to do leadin by example and hope some of it catches on....

Open to suggestions as to how we can FEASABLY change the crap....

oooooooooooooo

Simple: Talk to people you know, get them to talk to people they know, and after enough have talked, go out and...

VOTE

'78E original owner

[81xsproject]

This thread, as it relates to its predecessor, reminds me of that line from The Gremlins, "The don't die, they multiply."

[wa407mpp]

feel free.

I joined this site to discuss motorcycle and motorcycle related subjects. Not politics, religion or alternative life styles. If you feel you need to express an opinion on one of these subjects, there are plenty of other sites you can join. I come here to relax not be irritated.

[trbig]

I joined this site to discuss motorcycle and motorcycle related subjects.

Then may I suggest you don't linger here in the Members' Lounge, and stay strictly to the motorcycle related threads. To quote: "This is the place for all of the (civil-toned) off-topic chatter that doesn't belong in the other areas."

Nobody forces anyone to click on any links.... except the spam-bots who make it through and force me to click on the smut stuff..

Tod

[wa407mpp]

When discussing these three subjects it remains civil for a short time, then feelings are hurt and then it's down hill from there, But that's up to you, Just don't be surprised, if you show up for a ride this summer and no one is speaking.

[Wildkat]

except the spam-bots who make it through and force me to click on the smut stuff..

the spam-bot made you do it? ummmmmmmmmmmm... yeah...
I know... you're just making sure there aren't any viruses... to protect the rest of the members... right?
that would make you what? a Trojan man?

lol

Just don't be surprised, if you show up for a ride this summer and no one is speaking.

I don't know... depends on the maturity of the people involved... Some of the most heated arguments in the forum have involved some of the nicest people when you meet them in person...
If anyone gets that hung up on topics here... then like trbig suggested... might be best not to click on anything one would find offensive...

[trbig]

if you show up for a ride this summer and no one is speaking.

Well heck. Even when that Maximan guy shows up, people are still speaking. NOBODY is as bad as he was... so I think the rest of us milder folk will be ok. Even when grouchy-azzed Prometheus showed up last summer, talk quickly fell to whispers... but then he bought beer and all was well.

Tod

[webbcraft2150]

Arrrugghh!!! I been duped, a victim of an evil conspiracy that make me tremble at the thought of dumping Mobil 1 into my beloved XS, sweat breaks out on my brow at the thought of running anything except Elite II's. The little voices in my head that battle when I reach for store brand Mac-n-Cheese, visions of the little kids on the TV commercial touting the name brand stuff forces me to grab the K-R-A-F-T. My hand twitches at the gas pump, undecided whether to use regular or the good stuff, "it won't make any difference which grade you use", memory of a protesting, pinging engine pulling a load in the summer heat forces my trembling hand to grab the preimum handle.

I am really confused now, I am gonna go watch a rerun of the moon landing, that didn't happen.

And....this is the section that deals with pert near anything, Idle Talk Forum has nuthin to do with pilot screw settings. "Civil talk", Prom excluded!!

[Pat Kelly]

Well heck. Even when that Maximan guy shows up, people are still speaking. NOBODY is as bad as he was... so I think the rest of us milder folk will be ok. Even when grouchy-azzed Prometheus showed up last summer, talk quickly fell to whispers... but then he bought beer and all was well.

Tod

I made Maximan so mad he climbed over Miles, left the table at the restraunt and he went back to his room. We were talking tires.