Sociability factor

[fredintoon]

Hi List,
below is part of a PM exchange between myself & Randy that he suggested should be made public:-
Originally Posted by randy
(it was a) Velorex 562
Hi Randy,
Keeryst! No wonder it lifted.
OK, you could run a Velorex on an XS11.
IF you did ALL of these things:-
Set it up to have a very wide track.
Sturdied up the attachments.
Installed Velorex's optional heavy duty suspension.
And ran with a sandbag or so of ballast when you were running light.
Here's sidecar Guru Hal Kendall's stability test, that he does before test riding other folks rigs:-
Stand with one foot on the rig's left footpeg while gripping the bars. Throw your whole weight hard left.
If the rig don't move it's dead stable, your granny could ride it.
If the sidecar wheel lifts no more than 6" that's a nice riding rig that'll handle well without being stodgy.
If the sidecar wheel lifts around 12" that's a sporty rig you'd best be careful with.
If the sidecar comes way, way up, it's a hazard, don't ride it.
If you want to try sidecarring again, you will still have to teach yourself how to operate the thing but a heavier sidecar will fix the stability problems.
Your best economic bet is something used and Russian. I like the Sputnik because it has a more enclosed body that opens up for passenger access but the wide open style of a Ural or a Dneipr will let you carry more stuff.
Note that the above is my personal opinion and that I am a mere amateur.
If you want the real stuff, sign up with these guys:-
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/SCT/
and talk to the experts.
But what this string is really about is a sidecar rig's sociability factor.
The mere addition of a sidecar turns the average scary leather-clad bike rider into somebody's favorite uncle. Folks who would avoid you like the plague on a solo come up to your sidecar rig and want to chat. I have to allow extra time on trips to the supermarket for reminiscing with passers by in the car park. And for those whom it may concern,
1) As an example of how much stuff a sidecar can haul compared to a solo, mine can carry 10 dozen of beer with the tonneau snapped down.
2) A sidecar is a great chick magnet.

[prometheus578]

I'm already a "Chick Maggot."

You guys are always trying to be sociable and friendly....
Bah!
If'in I had a sidecar... I'd paint the whole rig panzer gray and go tear-assin' around Poland.

Good tips for checkin' stability, Fred.

[fredintoon]

You guys are always trying to be sociable and friendly....
Bah!
If'in I had a sidecar... I'd paint the whole rig panzer gray and go tear-assin' around Poland.

Good tips for checkin' stability, Fred.

Hi Prom,
it's only two letters to change from maggot to magnet and a sidecar could help even you.
Well, we'd be list curmudgeons except that the job is already filled.
You can buy a new street legal and registerable Ural rig right in the USA.
They even have a model that's tricked out in Russian camo and that has an optional machine gun mount.
Very popular with the WW2 re-enactor crowd.
For a fizz-over in Wehrmacht field gray, passage to Poland and finding a working LMG, you are on your own.
The stability check is from sidecar Guru Hal Kendall. If kudos is due, it's due to Hal, not me.

[randy]

I prefer the rocket launcher...

[prometheus578]

"Ur-al I dream about"

I worked at a shop that sold Urals, Fred.
I'd tell you my opinion of them... but then I have to go back in and edit my post... removing the improper words and foul language.

In your post, Fred, you gave credit to Mr. Kendall... but it was you, not him, who posted it here for our enlightenment.

[fredintoon]

I worked at a shop that sold Urals, Fred.
I'd tell you my opinion of them... but then I have to go back in and edit my post... removing the improper words and foul language.
.

Hi prom,
you mean, :- " you brass bound bevel edged skew cornered clinker built slab sided black enamel utterly worthless piece of total garbage that's too unreliable to use as a boat anchor you! " kinda words as your knuckles oozed blood from your latest encounter with it's innards? But that'd be some years ago?
I have no personal experience of those machines but those who own them claim they are far better these days.

[wa407mpp]

The local shop is selling one of those side cars that leans with the bike, looks about like a safety capsule for a drag boat. I wouldn't mind having it on a bike, if I could remove it when I didn't want to use it. And if they work as advertised.

[fredintoon]

Leaners

The local shop is selling one of those side cars that leans with the bike, looks about like a safety capsule for a drag boat. I wouldn't mind having it on a bike, if I could remove it when I didn't want to use it. And if they work as advertised.

Hi Steve,
if the leaner is a Flexit it's rarer than hen's teeth plus it's worth a young fortune.
Because of their extreme rarity (1% of 1%) leaners are great crowd magnets.
The advantage of a leaner compared to a normal rig is that you don't need to shorten up your trail to lighten the steering and it handles just like a solo bike
so you don't have to remember to switch off your countersteering reflex when you ride a leaner or remember to switch it on again when you ride a solo.
All you have to remember is to not overtake things too close and that you'd best give up lanesplitting.
So yeah, you can plug a leaner on and off as and when you feel like it.
The disadvantage of a leaner compared to a normal rig is that it can wipe out and fall over on treacherous road surfaces just like a solo.
You pays your money and you takes your choice.

[Rasputin]

older maybe

Fred you can recall all the virtues of any sidecar. I will never ride one just cause I dont like em much. If I need ten cases o beer, I just use my car or truck to get em. I would probably need ten cases of beer just to try ride one of those rigs. They aint pretty at all, but hey beer works for ugly girls in a bar so maybe. Thanks fer trying to educate us for those who may be interested. I may need one later in life if I am to feeble to ride without training wheels, but would probably just use my hot rod truck.

[Chuckster]

Ural Sighting

I saw my first Ural this past weekend. I was snowboarding with my son in Wisconsin and in the parking lot, right next to the lodge was this bike/sidecar parked practically on top of a snow bank. It was a red Ural. On the back part of the sidecar there was a spare tire mounted and on top of that a ski rack! With the temperature only about 10 degrees Farenheit, I was impressed!

[fredintoon]

Fred you can recall all the virtues of any sidecar. I will never ride one just cause I dont like em much. If I need ten cases o beer, I just use my car or truck to get em. I would probably need ten cases of beer just to try ride one of those rigs. They aint pretty at all, but hey beer works for ugly girls in a bar so maybe. Thanks fer trying to educate us for those who may be interested. I may need one later in life if I am to feeble to ride without training wheels, but would probably just use my hot rod truck.

>
Hi Rasputin,
I am an old-age pensioner and although denying "feeble" I must admit that at my age my raging testosterone is completely under the control of my iron will.
Nor do I own a hot rod truck. And be warned, once you try a sidecar you will become addicted. There is no cure.
Also, I must point out that on a group ride while the most necessary person is the guy driving the sweeper pickup & trailer the most popular person is the guy with a sidecar that is carrying the beer.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Fred,

Would you say that a TRIKE made from an XS11 would be a bit more stable than a sidecar rig?? And if a person can weld, I would think it wouldn't be too hard to turn a fixed rig into a leaner?? Don't they have lean angle limits/stops so that you can't necessarily lean them too far over, so that they actually can't FALL over/down due to the lean stops??
T.C.

[fredintoon]

Hey Fred,

Would you say that a TRIKE made from an XS11 would be a bit more stable than a sidecar rig?? And if a person can weld, I would think it wouldn't be too hard to turn a fixed rig into a leaner?? Don't they have lean angle limits/stops so that you can't necessarily lean them too far over, so that they actually can't FALL over/down due to the lean stops??
T.C.

>
Hi TC,
if you mean, build oneself a poor man's Can Am foretrike, yeah, there have been several amateur builds, typically using the arse end of a big bike and the steering gear off a small car. Some with cabs, seats & a steering wheel.
If you mean a Lehman style trike, I do believe that company can make a conversion kit for any bike you care to name. Now Can Am foretrikes sell like hotcakes (they are so popular that one starred in a recent episode of one of the CSI shows) and Lehman style trikes have a huge following. Thing is, I grew up on sidecars and neither of the two symmetrical tricycle layouts appeal to me. And I don't have the thick end of 20 grand laying around neither.
DIYing a simple leaner, where the bike leans and the sidecar stays upright is easy enough, just lose the two upper struts and pivot the sidecar frame on two Heim joints under the bike. Equileans tilt the bike & sidecar together with a parallel bars arrangement that is easy enough to weld up but would be kinda difficult to get right. I'd suppose to design & build your own Equilean style leaner would take the same level of skill & knowledge as building your own solo bike frame. Then there's Flexits. Those suckers are brilliant, complicated and patented. And yeah, leaners do have lean stops that prevent the bike tilting more than ~45º. But when the bike wipes out on ice or a diesel spill or whatever and falls down onto those stops it won't be all that controllable. The best you can do is try to cling on until the rig stops moving then try to stand it back upright and start going again.