leaning

[adam79]

I understand that the leaning my body does not steer the bike, but it is necessary to lean WHEN steering to keep your balance and center of gravity.

My question is, just how far can I lean without the bike sliding out from under me? I have been pretty conservative in my turns so far (well, when I was riding during the summer and fall), probably cause Im just to nervous, and I havnt leaned much. I think I can lean farther than I have been, but can I go as far as say...the ducati drivers in the AMA races?

[Montreux_Blue]

The time has come for you to learn about counter steering. This is the best video of the CORRECT way to do it, some of the videos are wrong so don't waste your time watching them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C848R9xWrjc

[oldyam80sg]

You can only lean so far with the XS 1100 before you start scrapping-foot pegs would be the first to scrape and then maybe the center stand.The bikes like the Ducati drivers have are a lot easier to make very sharp turns.Remember that things like leaning sharply should only be done on the track and not on the street.

[subike]

A reply from down under
all the info you need pluss more you can laugh at.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=87489&highlight=counter+steering

Counter steering is one of the most understood/missunderstood skills you can learn for bike riding.

[Montreux_Blue]

Subike, that was pretty good. Listen to what these MotoGP guys have to say about countersteering. And if it helps one has an Aussie accent!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWb3lGjF928&feature=related

[DGXSER]

Msf

Adam,

I strongly recommend you take the MSF course if it is offered in your area. I can tell you that I am 42 years old and have ridden bikes on and off for 20 years and I just this year got my official endorsement and license by taking the MSF basic course. It really helps even for someone who has ridden.

There were PLENTY of people who had never ridden before, not sure if you have or not. Even had one guy who had never even driven a stick shift before, talk about a learning curve. And yet, he did great by the end of the course.

definitely learn how to countersteer, it is critical to taking curves at speed. The feeling is very much like you are pushing the bike down with the handlebars, pushing down on the side to which you are turning, the harder you push the tighter the turn and the lower it leans. As to your body, it should lean with the bike, as in your body and the bike are in line just liek you were upright no matter how far you lean. And definitely keep your speeds and your turning within your abilities which will increase with experience.

[adam79]

I watched the videos and read the threads. Im looking forward to the practice,,,, when the snow melts.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Adam,

And when you get really experienced and skillful, then when you are running the twisties with the XS11, you may even find times when you would want to lean/slide your body even farther towards the inside of the curve which will allow you to take a curve faster WITHOUT having to lean the bike so far over to prevent scraping pipes/pegs and such! Just watch the superbike or motogp riders, notice how they are dragging their inside knee against the ground, and have their butts slid far towards the inside of the curve!!
T.C.

[trbig]

When I go into curves, I ride with my boot about half on/half off the peg to the outside. When I'm in the curves and my boot starts getting rubbed.. I know I'm close to peg scraping. After a while, you'll get to where you know exactly how far that is and won't really NEED to do it.. but it has become a habit to me. Check the prices for replacing the foot pegs.. and you'll see why I don't want to go scraping them off.

If the road is clean and dry and your tires are in good shape and properly inflated.. you can get low enough to scrape all kinds of things. The furthest I've gone is to have the footpeg fold up and smash my foot against the motor and scraped up the shiny chrome bolts I had bought for my heat shield on the exhaust.


I have noticed that on the XS.. the center stand does scrape sometimes, but on my XJ, the only time the center stand scrapes is on big bumps that over-ride the springs and it pops down and scrapes for a split second. It never scrapes on turns.

Tod

[Ivan]

Somewhere on xs11.com, I posted about countersteering, including gyroscopic precession and several other physics things that happen. Any way one perceives what happens during counter steering, the simple fact is that it is the only way to snap the XS around with any authority at all.

I don't agree that the bike can't be "guided" with redistribution of weight, but there is no way you could make a turn, only keep it in the lane. I have seen too many riders cruising down the road with hands off. MotoGP guys crossing the checkered flag with both arms in the air etc. There has to be something to do with weight distribution, but leaning on the bike and wiggling around profusely is bound to only get you hurt if you need to turn sharply to avoid an obstacle.

As far as I can tell with the MotoGP guys leaning, and hanging a cheek off the seat, is that they are adjusting the center of gravity so the bike its self doesn't have to lean as far for the same radius of turn, letting them turn shorter before scraping pegs and such. For me that was the most difficult thing to overcome. Looking at pavement getting closer to my head and then leaning into it was definitely a mental barrier. Alas, it does make the bike feel more like it wants to turn.

My biggest learning curve now is doing the slow speed short turns. I am working on leaning the bike and turning in the width of a traffic lane. For some reason it is tough for me. I am inclined to go very slow and stay upright, fighting the balance all the way. Some time, with much more practice in the church parking lot, I will be able to make short slow turns leaned in, without looking like I need training wheels.

[Axel]

It takes Time

I started out 2 seasons ago on my XJ11 after 10 years off a bike . Needless to say I am not the same persom (weight ,skill) as then . I was quite fearful of the bike sliding out from under me and had trouble with turns . I read a lot of stuff on turns and already knew about countersteering . Still there was a slow learning curve involved that just took time . Once I knew that the bike wasnt about to slide out from under and I was not pushing its limits ,I grew more confident . I rode in the rain a lot as well to gain experience with that .
I was afraid to lean too far but eventually found myself leaning farther and turning shorter with no worries . My body learned with time to navigate the turns effortlessly but I had a few scares along the way ( no spills though) .
This last season was a gas with a lot less paranoia and more enjoyment . Of course allow yourself some time in the Spring to get used to riding/braking /turning again .
I have new SS brake lines and can now lock up my front wheel . This I must remember come Spring !

[earl G]

I watched the videos and read the threads. Im looking forward to the practice,,,, when the snow melts.

try counter steering on a bicycle first. ride in a straight line then turn the handle bar to the left a little, do not lean, with will push you weight to the right and the bike will go right. you can really feel the counter steering on a bike.

[petejw]

Heres a pic about body positioning some of you might find interesting,



leaning into the corner makes a huge difference with regards to the lean angle of the bike, ive noticed a lot of riders especially riding cruiser type bikes sitting bolt uprite like in the 2nd pic with the bike leaning way over.

and heres a video i found on youtube about getting the knee down.



The 81 models over here have the pegs sitting higher and further back than the us models, i havent scraped pegs but the exhaust gets scraped.

Check out the edges of ur tyres 2 see how much wear is left, that'll give u an indication of how much further you can lean.

[petejw]

heres a video of an xs rounding a cnr,
the camera wrk isnt the best but it sounds gd.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IdoqQPmsag

[Axel]

Does this make sense ?

Another thing I re-learned was that the bike would go where I was looking (pretty well) .
So I look ahead to where I want to be and the bike goes there (fairly straight).
I formarly made the mistake of looking at where the front wheel was and was having trouble turning .