Wrong Forum?

[mstic2000]

Okie Doke, the election is over. Duh! Did anybody doubt Obama would win? I mean C'mon! A washed up Admrils son who caused the death of 150 good honest navy men on an aircraft carrier and his sidekick the infomus cheerleading Shara Palin who had no clue what national issues really are?? Let me lay it down to you on a grass roots level. I'm from Michigan "go blue" yeah whatever! But the story remains the same in this sorry A** state! The Union has got us by the balls! My mother and father both worked for GM and retired on disability! Yes, God Forgid! They did the unimangable when the union let them down and both had back problems so sever that they HAD to go on disability! For all of you out of state and don't know what that means when you are a UNION worker, let me shed a little light on the subject! When you are UNION and you go out on disability you might as well reject your faith in a catholic got and get shuned by the commuinity of UNION workers! You might as well have commited a felony and been sentenced to prison for the rest of your life. No union worker will acknowledge you anymore. You know how I know? I grew up in the BS! I saw it first hand! My mother and father both suffered with going to the doctor continually with back and neck problems from working in the fountries IN SAGINAW MICHIGAN, Grey Iorn, and Nodular! My mother worked in the core room at Nodular Foundry in Saginaw Michigan and fought GM lawyers to the hilt for her disabillity! And got it!~ So did my Father bless his soul! They deserved it! The deserved it just like the men and women fighting in our Military deserve it! If you doubt me then you have no idea what went on here in Saginaw Michigan back in the 50s,60s, and 70s! And you know what FU*** THOSE DAMN unions! You know why? They didn't stand up for SH**! But my mother and father both prevailed! And they gave me a good up bringing in the process of making untold sacrifices for both me and my sister. Now the times have changed. It's not the 70s anymore. Do I belive that GM DESERVES A LOAN? A BAILOUT? OR ANYTHING ELSE? HELL NO! Do you know why? Let me break it down for you. I've been working meanial jobs for the past 30 years ever since I came back from Texas. I married a good woman who has 27 years in with the state of Michigan. Now let me break it down futher. The state of Michigan is run by the UAW! Gasp! You might say? No? Yes! It is! So is every other govermental office in michigan! That's right! And do you know what they have did for the State of Michigan workers for the past 30 yrs? NOTHING! That's right! Nothing! My wife HAS TO PAY HER UNION DUES! And for what? To get Royally screwed by the UAW! They've taken away her bonus', they've sold her out on her Medical, They've sold her out on her retirement! What next! AND SHE'S NOT EVEN A UAW WORKER! I hope to God Obama kick the union out of michigan and ANYBODY ASSOCIATED WITH THE UNION! THEY ARE NAZIES IN THE PUREST FORM!!!!@!!!!

[randy]

OK, step away from the keyboard, stuff what's left of your money into your mattress so the dems don't get their hands on it and have another drink.

[trbig]

I don't think the government should be using our tax dollars to bail out ANY failed businesses. Period. Things are going to get tough for a while no matter how much of OUR money they pump into them. Mismanaged, greedy, golden umbrella waving big wigs STILL living it up while the regular worker starves and the company is in the red, yet still giving big bonuses to the head honchos. Businesses ran like that deserve to have smaller, more competitive companies take their place.

Most of the experts say that these bailouts are only at best going to prolong the inevitable.. so why pay it?

I do like Randy's idea though... Think I'll go drink.. lol. At least it's not a depression WITH prohibition! lol.

[webbcraft2150]

I want to apply for some bailout money!!! Come on, 100k would be a drop in the bucket. I could pay everything off, stash the next 3 years of tuition, buy the 2lb bag of Oreos and 1lb can of Spam and a '80 Special and a '80MNS to keep my 80g company. Ok, I might splurge and get rid of the cassete deck in the bedroom and pitch the VCR for a DVD player. The 8-track player in the garage stays!!!!!!

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Mystic,

Nope, right forum, you can talk just about anything in the Member's Lounge. We've learned that Politics and Religion can get very heated, and can end up with closing of threads, even banning of members that get too out of line with their comments directed towards OTHER XSives! So I say that as a reminder for respectable, responsible, intelligent discourse is encouraged, but disrespectful, inflammatory remarks towards other members, name calling, etc, will NOT be tolerated. Let the discussion continue.

I remember learning in school about unions and the alleged good they did back in the beginning of the industrial revolution of the USA when there were NO worker protection laws, no Antitrust laws, etc., and the businesses/companies that would just fire folks and hire replacements with no regard for tenure, work people in very unsafe environments and for excessive periods/hours in a day, child labor, etc.!! The unions were required to provide leverige against big business to bargain for better conditions, wages, etc..

But I don't believe that they are much needed in this day and age. But just like any Beaurocratic organization, room for corruption, power corrupts, etc!

Now let's here from both sides, pros and cons!
T.C.

[Poprock]

Any auto bailout is a bailout of the UAW, period. Don't expect B.O. to take a position other than the domocrat party line.

[madmax-im]

Jumping into the fire

Hmm Well I dont disagree with anything thats been said thus far.It is sad that ordinary Americans are getiing screwed royally by our "government".Whatever happened to sink or swim?Seems like the only ones not getting a bailout are the very ones that need it the most...US!
Will Obama make things right again? I hope so,but I have to tell ya I dont have much faith that he can or will.In fact by the time he takes office I'm afraid there wont be much left to govern.I've always been a patriotic American but the disgust that I have for our "government" is enough to make me want to emigrate to Canada!

[CatatonicBug]

I have never been even vaguely related to any union. None of my family members have ever been in a union either. My wife works as a teacher, and IS a member of the teacher's union though. However, the insurance that they provide is so bad that we don't even look at the paperwork they send to us, and we don't tell medical providers about it. In fact, I lost a job because the privately-owned company I was working for sold out to a union-run company. I am only 30, so I didn't live in the time when OSHA, Workers Comp and other emloyee-protection laws didn't exist.

I do recognize the beneficial things that unions have brought about in this country over the last century. However, I think that their time has run out. Competition between businesses for the best employees has become so feirce that salary is often secondary to the benefit package as a whole. Companies now offer wonderful benefits and working conditions that do not require a union to enforce. Personally, I simply would not accept employment from a union company, or any company that did not offer the benefits that I feel are important. It is up to the individual person to decide whether a company provides what they need in an employer. If it does not, the individual must make a choice - accept the disappointment, or look elsewhere. Opportunity is everywhere, and the beauty of this country remains that anyone can make a place for himself here, and with enough determination and work, succeed in doing what makes him happiest.

My dad got his HS diploma via correspondence school when I was a sophomore in HS. He has no college. However, he helped build Epcot and designed many still-standing items at both U.S. Disney parks. He worked for Universal Studios and managed to climb the ladder to become a high-level manager in the project that built the Islands Of Adventure park in Florida. He ended up starting his own business, doing exactly what he enjoys - precision machining, designing and assembly. He has become incredibly successful with his dreams, and all without any advanced education besides what he taught himself. That tells me that anyone can do it, regardless of where they came from or how much education they have. In fact, Obama really seems to back up this belief. From humble beginnings, he has been able to become so successful doing what he enjoys that he has now been elected to represent this whole country. He is not riding on anyone's coattails, and not living off of some inherited fortune. He's a real human, just like all of us, who has managed to rise to the top of his world. Isn't that what we all want to do?

[trbig]

OK.. Just gotta say this.

I just don't get HOW Obama could be where he is? No experience really. No track record to judge him by other than to vote "Present", extremely questionable acquaintances throughout his life, a name change from Barry to a very Muslim name, and a campaign mainly promising "Change" without going into what that change is. Heck, there's even a lawsuit against him because he can't prove he was born in the U.S. I could go on and on, but it would do no good. I'm stuck with him... I just never understood except for the fact that people were tired of Bush and associated McCain with him.

The color of someone's skin has no bearing on this for me. I could care less if he's purple or orange.. but it seems to me that we became so obsessed with getting a "Black man" into the white house.. we didn't really look at the credentials. He's a motivational speaker, no doubt... but I was looking for someone with a little more substance and experience.... Too bad Ron Paul was never really in the running. He had great ideas.. but he's as exciting to watch speak as seeing paint dry.

Tod

[CatatonicBug]

The way I look at it, it doesn't matter HOW he got there. It's the fact THAT he got there. He wanted to, and was able to play the game (part of the job of being President) and convince more than half of the country that he was qualified to represent the country in international forums. He had a dream to be in politics. He climbed the proverbial "corporate ladder", and managed to become the boss. Not much different than any modern company. The boss doesn't have to be good at making widgets, just at getting other people to LIKE making widgets for the company.

Remember that the President does not RUN the country. We give that job to the senators and congressmen. All the president has to do is sound intelligent (anyone could do that when compared to Bush) and be able to work a room in lots of different countries. He doesn't make laws or anything like that. He only signs the laws that congress passes if he decides that they sound good (not that he actually reads them all). Of course, if the president won't sign it, and congress disagrees, they can just sign it themselves.

[fredintoon]

Moving the capstan line

My experience as a trade union member was in the UK where the trade unions are led by hardline socialists unlike US unions which seem more closely connected to organised crime. One thing in common though, our bosses were arseholes too. One thing those bosses tried was to move the capstan line to the Cardiff branch plant. The capstan lathe operators were all blind people trained at St. Dunstan's and a thing that blind people have is great difficulty learning their way around a new city so they complained to the Union. The Union reps asked them, why not simply go back to St. Dunstan's, they gotta take you back don't they? and they said we'd rather go to jail than go back there.
So we had a Union meeting that morning and sent a delegate to see the managing director. This is what was said:
We hear you are going to move the capstan line and our blind machinists to the Cardiff plant and we are sorry for the delay but organizing five staff unions and seven works unions into a concerted action takes a little time so we won't be able to close the plant down until this afternoon.
Who told you that? It's simply not true. It was never our intention to do that. When I find out who started that rumour he will be one sorry fellow - - -

[tarzan]

I worked for a union once .The union pitted the employees against the management.Unproductive people that had been there for years were
favored over people with much better work habits with less time.I believe in a days work for a days pay.I also believe if a person walks past something that needs done and that person can do it without his responsibility being compromised, he should do it as a matter of pride and principle.Unions dont even want you sweeping your own area if your not a janitor.
The company I work for now broke the union back around 1980.Way before I worked there.It is the best company I have worked for.We have good benefits.People are encouraged to think outside the box and are truly appreciated.They also pay well and keep in tune with what is happening with employees.This is a company of about 400 people.
And Mystic I hope you are ok.It sounds like you are under a lot of pressure.
I would recommend looking at the situation for what it is.And maybe ask ,can I do anything about it?And accept what I cant change and try and change anything I can to make at least my famillies situation better..

[Special Ed]

A few observations:
 My Dad was a concrete form builder. We followed the highway jobs all over Texas. (We moved over 20 times and lived in 15 towns, all in Texas, before I was 7 years old.) Dad was adamantly anti union. As I grew up I began to understand why!
 I registered Republican for the first time in my life (I’m a recovering Libertarian,) in order to vote for Ron Paul. The Republicans really blew it. I actually think they threw the election, for whatever reason I cannot guess.
 The election of Barack Husain Obama is a classic case of “style over substance.” We know less about him than anyone we have ever elected President. Is he really an American citizen? Is he a Christian or a Moslem, and why is this important? (Go to www.Jihadwatch.com/Islam101.) I have heard that because of his past associations he couldn’t even pass a background check to be a White House security guard! Just how radical is he?
 Judging by the actions of the “left” in the recent election I am a bit concerned. The theft of McCain / Palen and Yes on 8 (the “Gay Marriage” issue,) yard signs; vandalism of vehicles and houses bearing these signs; the foot stamping, breath holding, boycotting reaction of the Prop 8 losers; threats of reinstitution some version of the so called “Fairness Doctrine.” I hope the “far right commentators are wrong in predicting an era of Fascism that will make the imagined obsess of Bush pail in comparison. I really do!
 The Mayan calendar is hailed by experts on the subject as being the most accurate devised by Man. It ends in the year 2012. Optimist suggest that this just means that this is the end of a cycle. If we save our calendars, they repeat themselves every seven years. Perhaps the Mayans were aware of a grander cycle that will repeat itself in 2012. But, say the pessimist, perhaps there is a comet, an asteroid, or a Dark Star that will destroy us in that year. Or not. But in any case my brothers and sisters of XS, we are in for some very interesting times. This, by the way, is a reference to an ancient Chinese curse: “May you live in interesting times.”
Special Ed

[Poprock]

Special Ed, you are an accurate observer of history being made. The only part of that new to me was the Mayan calendar thing. Might be on to something, might be coincidence, you never know. Comparing dates to our calendar is flawed because of the built in 4 year error, no 0 year, etc. But you never know. We do live in interesting times. A little boredom might be nice.

[oseaghdha]

Couple of things

Obama supports Card Check. For those who don't know, this will remove the requirement that unionisation votes have a secret ballot. Opens the door to intimidation. I predict that the congress will keep the Big Three on life support until BHO is inaugurated whereupon he will bail them out good and proper, so the UAW can get back to their graft and corruption.

A union's primary functions are to collect money and protect the incompetant.

A long time ago, I had a chance to get into GE Aircraft Engine Business Group in ABQ. I jumped on it. It is a right to work state, meaning you don't have to join the union if you don't want to. I did not want to. This will be the next thing they try to do away with after card check is passed.

The guy showing me my job was the Steward. He says, " You gotta watch out for the guy following you, he might not be as good as you." I replied, "If he makes as much or more than me, he better be as good." Wrong answer. We didn't get along. I'd run too many parts and they would banish me to the other end of the shop. Got to be a game.

So the contract is coming up. They are talking strike, for bennies, medical, blah blah blah. They hate the contract, it sucks. I'm like 25 with a newish wife got a baby, a house, 10 bux an hour. I just want to work, why is this BS happening to me? "You better not try to cross." They sez. Arseholes.

Anyway, a company memo comes out stating you have to pay dues whether or not you're in the union. WTF??? True.

Turns out the uniion likes the contract just the way it is, Thankyou. I had enough and bailed out, moved to PHX.


The UAW has forced the creation of a "Job Bank" There are about 12,000 employees getting $31/hr watching TV, reading books, playing games. Nice work if you can get it.

I hate unions, they are a pox upon the land. I don't want to see the Big Three go away, but they are the one's that need CHANGE.