Any input....son wants his first bike

[Paintman]

First bike

my son finnaly decided he wanted to get a bike so being a good dad i taught him on my KLR650. since i have a 2500 acre backyard he learned how to slide the bike around do emergency stop and generaly learn how the bike reacts. after qwhile i took him and did his safety course. i use to teach it for 15 yrs while in the Air Force.
he did great and passed he rode the KLR for 6 months. after he was confident i let him ride my 1100 he is a big kid LOL 6ft9 so even the 1100 looked like a toy but he loves it so now im building him an 80 special i found. he is like me he loves the old classic bikes. i know i could have just taught him on the 1100, but i always learned on dual sport bikes first . good luck to your son. Hmm mine is suppose to have mine back today better go bike hunting.
John

[lakecountrydave]

I agree with Prom: "People can still do stupid things and go fast on a 400cc machine...". As your son is not a small guy you might want to look at something with ergos that will fit him. My last bike was an 83 Honda VF750F. This bike was plenty quick, but was just too small for me. I was never able to make her comfortable, and in my opinion that made her unsafe for me. I believe in devoting all my attention to riding when I am riding. Back to Proms point, a 600cc crotch rocket is just not a good starter bike (I don't care what his friends say). I think an xs850 would be an excellent choice. Or at least that idea. Something big enough to fit his size, light enough to handle, big enough that he will keep it long enough to develop his skills, cheap enough that he won't cry (or you won't kill him) when he drops it and something that doesn't scream "drag the pegs" or "ride a wheelie". Just my $.02!

Dave

[DJinNH]

Re: First bike

Originally posted by Paintman
he is a big kid LOL 6ft9 so even the 1100 looked like a toy but he loves it so now im building him an 80 special i found. John

Here's a bike your son might be interested in....



Don

[wa407mpp]

05 Meanstreak

If your son is interested, I have a son in Atlanta, Ga., Who is selling a 2005 Kawi. 1600 Meanstreak, which is loaded with performance goodies, that he has decided to sell, if your son is interested, pm me and I'll send you his number. This is a low mileage, well cared for bike, he has a 750 Honda cafe that he thrashes.

[jetmechmarty]

My first rides were on a borrowed dirt bike. It would have been good to have had more experience on those, but at least I got some.

I bought a new XS650 when I was 24. It is easy to handle yet fairly large and heavy. I liked it well enough that I kept it. I still have it and I like it more now than I ever did.

[81xsproject]

I started on an XJ650. Good size starter bike. Heavy enough to be stable (-ish compared to the 11), and would still go fast enough.

[DJinNH]

Just an update.....my son has decided to hold off until October when he returns to his base in NC. He is hoping to get some experience with any dirtbikes he can before making a decision on what he may like to purchase.

He is also hoping to take the safety course that is offered out there at 29 Palms but he was told he should wait until he only has about 2-3 months before buying a bike. I guess I understand the logic, so it's all fresh, but I wish he could just take it so it was behind him.

Don

[DiverRay]

Don,
Seems as if someone is giving your son some good advice. The MSC is a good beginning, but you DO need to practice after the course. If he can "borrow" a dirt bike from someone while he's out there, he will be steps ahead. He will have the time to learn the controls, learn to slide, etc. while still on "soft" dirt. Once he has a little experience, the MSC WILL help him a LOT more with the "road" part of riding.
JMHO

[Guy_b_g]

MSC

Not sure if the Marines are the same as the Army in this regard, but in the Army, if you haven't taken the MSC basic course, you aren't "legal" to ride a motorcycle on post. They can't ticket you for riding off post, but if you get pulled over on post you will receive a ticket if you don't have an MSC card.

I took one of the first MSC courses offered at FT Stewart, GA in the late 80's, when I owned a Concours. It's an excellent course.

Also, in the Army they do regular inspections (especially right before holiday weekends) and they check the vehicles for safety, as well as the rider/driver for insurance, licensing, endorsements, (and the all-important MSC card).

[DJinNH]

Re: MSC

Originally posted by Guy_b_g
Not sure if the Marines are the same as the Army in this regard, but in the Army, if you haven't taken the MSC basic course, you aren't "legal" to ride a motorcycle on post. They can't ticket you for riding off post, but if you get pulled over on post you will receive a ticket if you don't have an MSC card.

I took one of the first MSC courses offered at FT Stewart, GA in the late 80's, when I owned a Concours. It's an excellent course.

Also, in the Army they do regular inspections (especially right before holiday weekends) and they check the vehicles for safety, as well as the rider/driver for insurance, licensing, endorsements, (and the all-important MSC card).

I do believe it is the same for the Marine Corps. Last summer when I visited him at Camp Lejeune, NC, I noticed all the guys on bikes had helmets, those safety vests, etc. I'm just about certain the safety course is required to ride on any military base.

FYI, the MPs from Camp Lejeune even have some kind of authority offbase in Jacksonville, NC. I found that interesting.

Don

[planedick]

MP's

have authority anywhere when it involves the soldiers.

[Guy_b_g]

Depends on what you mean by authority.

I ran the legal office for 10th AVN DIV, 10th MTN, Fort Drum, NY for most of 3 years, from late 2001, to Dec 2004. I was my job to handle all UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice) criminal law cases for the Aviation Division, as the 27D (paralegal specialist) Legal NCOIC, prior to my retirement.

MP's cannot conduct searches, or make arrests off post unless the local civil authority surrenders jurisdiction.
The civil authorities seldom surrender jurisdiction. The military very seldom requests jurisdiction.

Sometimes in certain cases the local civil authorities will work hand in hand with the military authorities in drug, theft ring or various other cases...but usually there is only a sharing of information and evidence.

We used to hate the fact that we could not punish a soldier for an off post law violation beyond the punishment that soldier would receive from the civilian court. For instance DUI or drug charges....to do so would entail "double jeopardy" and we as citizens are all protected by Constitutional Law from that (including soldiers).

Our answer to these problems was to conduct a bad conduct discharge if the infraction warranted it.

A good example of what I am explaining is the recent case of murder where the young female soldier was killed and buried in another soldiers back yard. Because it happened off post, it is being handled by the local authorities. The guy ran to Mexico and was recently caught and extradited. He's lucky we have an agreement not to execute murder cases with Mexico in return for extradition, he probably would have been put on death row by a local court.

This is a case the Army would not have tried to get authority to try in Courts-Martial, because a death penalty is almost unheard of in the military, the local authorities would give the harsher punishment.

Overseas, MPs sometimes have more power, sometimes less, depending on our SOFA (Status Of Forces Agreement) with the host country. We may or may not have the right to conduct searches, make arrests, etc...based on the agreement our governments have worked out.

MPs don't have as much power as a lot of people think, and that's across the board in all services.

That's why it's called the UCMJ (UNIFORM Code of Military Justice)

[fredintoon]

"Some animals are more equal than others"

Hi Guy,
perhaps double jeopardy does exist in certain cases. If a civilian is found guilty of (say) drunk driving but is punished by being fined or put on probation rather than being jailed his employer would not necessarily fire him off the job. But a serviceman in the same circumstance IS effectively "fired off the job" with a bad conduct discharge. In the same manner, should my neighbor and I get caught robbing a bank we would both serve the same jail time but afterwards he'd just walk free because he's Canadian born and I'd be deported because I wasn't.

[Guy_b_g]

Double Jeopardy only exists (legally) in courts. Even though you are effectively being punished twice by being given a Bad Conduct Discharge..it's not considered the same.

The military has certain standards of ethics and etiquette, and violating those standards can be considered as a kind of "breach of contract" by the military.

That's why you can be given a Bad Conduct Discharge. You forfeit all the benefits given to someone in good standing with the military.

The rest of the "punishement" comes from future lack of employability by either civilian employers or the government...but that's not something the military dictates.

Still...Bad Conduct discharges are not given lightly, and are all reviewed and can be appealed.

Also...discharges can range from Honorable...to (ranking in severity) General, Other than Honorable, and Dishonorable.

A General dishcharge can also be later upgraded to an Honorable.

Discharge papers (DD214) can tell you a lot about the character of service a soldier had with the military. Certain codes in the lower right hand corner will tell if it was a medical, failure to adapt, or other type of discharge. A Savvy employer will look very closely at those codes (you can call any recruiters office to find out what they mean), and will probably not hire a soldier the Military has classified as a failure.

[Guy_b_g]

By the way soldiers aren't usually given discharges of any type for their first DUI.

NCOs may be discharged or not.

All soldiers with DUIs can have less expectation of promotion for some years afterward.

Even if a soldier was discharged for a DUI it would probably be a "General Discharge" rather than an "Other Than Honorable" or "Bad Conduct".