run gas engines on water question

[mason79]

i've been checking on the net about this, does anyone have any experience with this new concept? or is it a scam?

[randy]

Moderators, please move this to the Joke-of-the-day thread.

That scam has been floating around for ages. I think the latest one i saw was a device that broke water down into hydrogen/oxygen. The engine then burned the gases and water is the by-product. Sounds neat, except you need to input more energy than you get out, because there are always losses in any process that alters the state of matter.

[mason79]

okay so that's one "no"

[trbig]

I heard in the news recently that the Department of Defense is testing a version of this type of engine, but I couldn't find it. There are many scams out there that talk of using a setup hooked to your cars intake to make it run on Hydrogen. They even had a show on Mythbusters about it. These don't work. I can't say yea or nay, but here's a video I have seen before about a guy that SEEMS to be on the right track.


Water power


For the near future though, plan on getting raped by by the oil barons and SHEETheads.


Tod

[The Lorax]

My son brought me a website of someone selling instructions on how to build one of these "hydrogen power pants" to turn your car/truck into a gasoline/Hydrogen hybrid. I told him I thought it was bunk, but that we could build one for grins just to see if it actually made hydrogen, if so, we could put it on my truck and see if it actually did anything for the fuel economy. I did a little research on the method they described, and supposedly (according to a chemistry professor at the university of Cincinnati, my daughter is a freshman there and is presently taking chemistry) the method of production they describe will actually produce hydrogen. the question then becomes whether it will make enough to actually affect fuel economy. if you are running a fuel injected engine with all the appropriate o2 sensors and feedback loops present, if there is any appreciable benefit, the feedback loop will actually lower the amount of fuel it uses. I still think its bunk, but in the interests of building some kind of crazy contraption that might explode and make a cool boom, I will build one. I will make sure it doesn't explode before I put it in my vehicle. we plan to use an aquarium air pump to force air through it and a battery charger to generate the electric current necessary for electrolysis to begin. I will then light the output hose on fire and see if it actually lights up. The battery charger has a ammeter on it and will give me an idea of how much current the "H-Bomb" as we affectionately refer to it actually draws. Again, I believe this to be bunk, cold fusion, perpetual motion etcetera. but might make a fun experiment. have a nice day and ride safe.

[stereomind]

some guy at Purdue discovered that an aluminum-gallium alloy reacts with water, releasing hydrogen in large amounts. It's actually aluminum that reacts, and gallium keeps the alloy from oxidizing in the process.

[The Lorax]

the process my son found on the web used electrolysis, distilled water with baking soda as a catalyst. I don't honestly know if it will work, but it should be fun to try.....what's the worst that could happen, right

[wa407mpp]

lead into gold

I was working on a device to turn lead into gold, but with the price of lead being so high, I was losing money, so I gave up.

[boyat68]

One thing to keep in mind. "there is no free lunch." To produce the Aluminum-gallium alloy, takes a lot of energy in the form of heat to mix the alloy properly. That heat has to come from somewhere. Usually natural gas. After that you have to use electric energy to break down the aluminum in the presence of the gallium to produce hydrogen. The question one has to answer, would it be as expensive as regular gasoline. Remember the cost of aluminum has skyrocketed and if the process was feasible, then the cost would go even higher as demand for aluminum increased. What would be the cost of recycling the gallium? This process ranks right up there with Alcohol, hydrogen from seawater, and electric vehicles. You have to produce the electricity by some method.

[fredintoon]

Brown's gas

That's the name to Google. Electrolytic disassociation of water into Oxygen & Hydrogen to make "Brown's gas". The technique is used industrially to produce extra-pure Hydrogen. Of course, it takes more energy to separate the components than you will get from burning them so using your car's battery & alternator system to make it so your car can burn it makes the car burn more gasoline not less. I remember in WW2 I saw cars with big accordions on their roofs full of coal gas for the engine to run on. If you can live with one of those perhaps using house current to brew the stuff in your basement could work for you.

[fredintoon]

energy sources

"This process ranks right up there with Alcohol, hydrogen from seawater, and electric vehicles. You have to produce the electricity by some method."
Hi Boy,
no problem producing electricity. Use windmills, tidal turbines & nukes. But the wind blows where it listeth, tides come & go and nukes HATE to load-follow.
The problem is storing the electricity for when you need it. What you do is build enough nukes to satisfy the base load and run them at a moderate constant level with the windmills & tidal turbines generating as and when they can. Take all the current that is surplus to demand and use it to electrolyze water. Whiffle the oxygen into the atmosphere to get Kyoto brownie points (that ain't just a nuke plant Mr Greenie, that's a big atomic powered tree!) And store the hydrogen! Finally, energy we can store! Can't be too much of a trick to run vehicles on it and all that comes out of the tailpipe is water vapour.

[Crazcnuk]

And this is the crap that will keep us in the dark ages, burning gas for decades to come.

First, Hydrogen burns perfectly fine in a car. Just like propane, only you need less of it, and it produces up to 18% more horsepower than gasoline. Chrysler and Jeep both built hydrogen powered prototypes (as well as turbine powered cars) back in the 50's and 60's.

The problem is how to store it, or produce it, in sufficient quantities on the car.

Second. of course it has to be produced, big whoopie. Why do you think the gas companies are against new nuclear power stations?

Third, and most important. Hydrogen is Nature's perfect fuel.

1) it's clean, absolutely no pollution from burning it ever.
2) It's non-exhaustible. Water is made up of Hydrogen (H2) and Oxygen, and water covers 2/3 of the planet.
3) It's non-destructible, short of a nuclear reaction we cannot damage the atom...
4) It can be created any number of ways, and yes it takes power to make, but we can make all the power we need, or want, it's just a matter of will.

The problem is that the oil companies have spent a century convincing us that hydrogen is some evil nasty uncontrollable thing.

You name one fuel, anywhere, that doesn't require infrastructure, processing or shipment.

Hydrogen is what heats the entire planet, now. Next time your out getting a tan, thank the hydrogen powered heater we call the sun.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=vm5JhpWt4GQ

http://educate-yourself.org/fe/fewat...l28jan02.shtml

[planedick]

Been thinking

about exploring the concept. Some time ago I saw a utube video about someone who had a dune buggy fitted with a H2O generator and used water as the only fuel. Unfortunately the guy dissapeared with his invention, but he did stir enough interest to get all these people interested including me. One bit of information I did glean from his experiment was that the electric used was DC cycled and excited just like the spark for the ignition. So, using ignition coils and breakers might be the way to make enough H2O to be useful without the massive amounts of electric normally required to make HHO from water. I guess I should start experiments instead of just dreaming. Maybe I can do something about the mileage on my XS. Would be nice to get 100 MPG with increased HP.

[xschop]

I like this thread

I will be experimenting myself on a 2.8l S10 That I have with a large amount of extra space under the hood. I did alot of research on this and it is very feasable. My Bro-in-law makes about 55 gallons of Bio-diesel per month for his vehicles and He keeps eggin' me on about doing an HHO vehicle....Keep the info coming....I think just a large amperage alternator/generator would be key in a POV....chop

[The Lorax]

the website I aw suggested that their "HHO" generator only drew 1 - 3 amps. I am certain that the process will produce Hydrogen, the question becomes will it create enough to actually offset the fuel consumption of the vehicle. I kind of doubt it, I'm a big believer in that funny looking greek "n" with the tail on it (nu: the symbol for efficiency) so I suspect the gain will be less that the expenditure, but that is half the fun of off the wall experiments that could blow me up and make me a grease spot on the sidewalk in front of my house. have a nice day and ride safe.