Carbs

[CarolynS]

I'm still UP

I am disturbed and cannot sleep. It's bothering me and I'm really stressed about it. That and the cat keeps attacking me!
I sat on the ground, in the sun(80+ in ol' Massachusetts today-warmest since last September)with a bunch of stupid men asking me stupid questions and trying-lamely-to help.
I suppose I'm frustrated that it didn't work and now I'm facing the possibility that it never will.
That SUCKS!

[fredintoon]

Q & D iggy tests

Hi Caro,
um, did you EVER see this machine running?
Try this:- Take all 4 plugs out, snap them into their plug wires, lay them on the cylinder head so they are grounded, turn the iggy on and push the starter button. You should see sparks at all 4 plugs as the engine spins over. If no, you have an ignition problem that needs fixing. If yes, put the plugs back in, put the wires back on, pull off the carb rack and spray instant start into the intake ports as you turn the iggy on and push the starter button. You should get a BRAAAAP from the engine. If no, swap #1 & #4 plug wires onto #2 & #3 plugs & vice versa and try again. (Mixing up which coil fires which plugs is a common failing.)
BTW, you may get posts offering to buy the bike from you just to save you the aggro. Ignore them, they are inspired by greed and envy.

[CarolynS]

You're CUTE

We have spark. One of the highlights of the day was watching the Old Man go "OUCH!, We have fire!
I am going to print this all out tomorrow-I have a printer at work-and try everything you guys tell me to.
What have I got to lose?

[81xsproject]

what was he holding when he got shocked? I recommend doing the plug wire trimming. I believe it is in the tech tips, but it simply consists of unscrewing the spark plug caps and cutting .25-.5" off of the spark plug wires and then screwing the caps back on. If the shocked someone was your proof of spark, it could have come out of the wire and gotten him instead of off the plug. The short path across the gap is small and usually the path of least resistance if everything else is making a good connection.

[TopCatGr58]

We've seen much worse machines brought back to life, don't give up!!

Hey Carolyn,

Just a little poking of fun at you, that's all!

Now, you don't have to worry about swapping out entire engines! IF after all of your diagnostics, and you can verify that you have spark on all 4 plug wires....BTW be sure that ALL of the plugs are laying against the head and have spark plugs in ALL of the caps....because the coils fire the wires in pairs, and IF you leave a plug off of ie. 3 and 4 while checking 1 and 2, you won't see a spark because it has to travel from the coil, to plug 1, thru the engine/head and then back up thru the Other spark plug #4, and back into the coil! IF you leave a plug out, you have disconnected the circuit and the power won't flow!!!

It's a common event for a PO to have done the cam chain tensioner adjustment incorrectly, or stripping the adjuster's locking nut so that it doesn't secure the tensioner plunger, and the chain gets loose, and skips a few teeth causing the cams to loose their proper timing, causing bent valves=loss of compression=no start!

However, you can swap the head from the OTHER engine onto this one so you can keep the same engine/case number! Or you can get new replacement valves and repair the head you have. This is about the worst case scenario as to why it's not starting, possibly due to loss of compression from bent valves vs. holes in the pistons! Hang in there and keep at it!
T.C.

[CarolynS]

Reply on the XS discussion

I started a new thread there to let you all know how I made out and what to do next.
However, TC, you've answered part of the question posed there.
Check it out and let me know what you think.

[wa407mpp]

check everything.

I know this will sound strange, but have you checked to make sure you have a whole engine? I bought an XS650 one time that was supposed to be ready to run, only to find out when I got around to check it over, that the cams where missing. I only bought it for parts, so it was no big deal ,but a lesson learned.

[Flatlander]

Here too?

CarolynS, you got me confused here. You posted this, on "Calling all GURU'S",
Update...
Okay, with the fresh gas it backfired out of the exhaust twice on either side, but it's also backfiring out of the airfilter. We figured we'd better check the air filter to make sure we had no "squatters"(mice), and when we took it off it was full of gas, obviously from trying to get it to run.
So, we have fire, we have compression-that leaves either completey gummed up carbs or a timing issue, or both. I still think the valves could use an adjustment and he said that he noticed somewhere in our research, that there's a timing chain that is supposed to be adjusted every 3K miles. The bike has 49K on it. What if it's been 20K since that and the valves were done? That would contribute to some of it, I'm sure.
I'm planning on trying to bring it home tomorrow, and I think the first thing to do is to remove the carbs and get them clean. Once we know they are functioning properly, it should be easier to diagnose the problem.
I'm sure alot of you have faced this same problem trying to resurrect an old XS that you picked up cheap because the PO didn't want to spend the $/or didn't know enough to remove the carbs and clean them, adjust them.
If that is what the problem is-Boy! Did I make a killing getting this bike for $400!!!!
I almost feel guilty.......yeah, right!

Then there were some other posts, then I posted this,
Hey CarloynS,
Carb cleaning is a good idea, but at this time do a compression test. I just had something like this happen to me. And if your PO new something about the head it leads me to believe that they may have had the head off? And in reassembly something might be off with the cam timing. Just a possibility. The compression should be 142 psi with a maximum difference of 14 psi between cylinders. My suggestion is also to stop trying to start it until you know more. Good luck.

Then you posted,
Oh, no. We stopped trying to start it right then. I was concerned about gas in the oil too, so I'm waiting to get some free time to dedicate to it, plus I'm making the phone calls and trying to track down places to get parts and how long will it take to get them.
While everything's apart-just carbs or APART-I want to do all the other things that may need attention. It's alot of research-thankfully this site exists-and time, but I wanted a hobby and this is the one I chose.
It's going to be great to make the investment, have fun doing paint, polish, etc. and then actually be able to see all of the work and expense(minimal compared to owning a HD)pay off when I'm out riding around and having people say "What kind of bike is that?"

Is this all the same thing going on here with this new post? Or are you now working on something else?
If it is still the same bike, then I'm assuming that the cam timing is correct, because you are now trying to start it again.
There are some very smart and helpfull people on here that can pin point you right to the problem.
I'm trying to learn something here and if this is the same bike then you've got me going in circles.