Enough with the politics and public policy, here's a thread that'll get everyone mad

[malber]

So here's the question. I don't care either way; a bike is a bike to me, though the 11 is special.

[prometheus578]

"I couldn't pick an answer ..."

... as I can't understand why anyone would want a V Twin.
That being said...
Marketing, that's what it was.
Now... I've worked on Viragos before, but mostly Vulcans and Victorys.
Interesting concept, the V twin. A bit out dated, but interesting.
"Oh, it's got great low end torque."
"Oh, it's got a terrific power band."
"Oh, it's got great style."
"Oh, it's got this and that..."
Ehhh.. makes my ears bleed.
Big, bulky vibratey things.
Marketing, like I said.
"VICTORY.... the New American Motorcycle!"
Obviously, for a new American motorcycle, it had to be a V twin.
(Wouldn't be American otherwise, now would it?)
They too were interesting machines, though I hated working on them.
So yes... they were built to capture the wannabe market.
"Buy a Harley clone for less money... with less problems..."
Just make sure to carry extra spark plugs.
Every time you start one, it goes through a 60 second rich cycle. During that time, just let it idle.
But no, people always had to "Play Harley" and start it up and then sit and rev the piss outta it to impress their friends.
I wouldn't even waste my time bringing a poor running Victory into the shop. Just go outside with a socket wrench and change the boob's plugs out on the drive. Cuss him out too, for wasting my time with his poor driving habits.
Drive belt squeal was the number one complaint.
Vulcan's were interesting, too. Never had too many problem with them. The 750's and 900's were sort of cool. The owners were just that... motorcycle owners. The 1500 and 1600 owners were different, as I'll explain later below.
Now, the Vulcan 2000 was a different story, owner-wise.
These were big lumbering behemoths(as were most of the owners)
This was the Harley Clone, and the owners the clonettes.
An engine with push rods.... how quaint!
The biggest deciding factor, of whether a bike is viewed as a Harley clone... is the choice of riding gear that the owner wears.
If the V Twin owner wears a full helmet... then he is just a normal motorcyle rider and deserves our praise as such.
If the V Twin owner wears a half helmet (or one of those beany-things)... stay clear of him when he's been drinkin' as he's a "real tough guy"!

And Malber... the 11 isn't "Special"... it's "Standard"

[Crazcnuk]

A bike is a bike, even Harleys. It's the riders that CAN be idiots.

I have nothing against Harleys, they are what they are, just don't try and tell me they are better than any other bike.

As for the Virago being a 'wanna-be', like I used to say when people asked if my Shadow was a Harley wanna-be, "It's what Harely wants to be, all right"

Just like the wheelie video, I feel for the bike, laugh at the rider.

BTW I've owned 2 Viragos and a Shadow, I have NEVER wanted a Harley.

[LoHo]

I don't see the Virago as a clone, just another idea for a Japanese bike. The 70 degree V, the engine-as-structural-unit, the dual carbs, all seem to me to indicate that it is just another style of bike. Although I like RoadStars, they seem to me to be much more of an attempt to out-Harley the Motor Company.
I have an XV500 (made only one year, of course) that was left in an empty lot, on its side, for three or four years, that I'm still trying to sort out. My wife rode an XV750 that she loved. Easy to ride, low seat, and a good first bike. I learned to ride on my XS, and my riding style still reflects the things that an XS doesn't like to do (a curve? Slow down! Slow down!) and the things it is good at...straight-away, anyone? YEEEEEhaaaa....!

[JWSanders]

I'm not a big fan of V-twins at all. They ALL look exactly alike to me. What's the point?

So few give a s#!t about originality anymore....friggin' herd mentality. They slap a few tassles on the bars and this and that and say it's original. It is to laugh.

But I'm not mad about it.....just dissapointed.

[lsippell]

Virago = piece of F**king s**t

Have you ever pulled the carbs from a Virago 700? I'm an Airframe and Power plant tech, and have ave worked on all kinds of autos for over 40 some odd years. I can have the carbs (with stock air box) off my XJ in fewer than 10 minutes. Don't mind tearing an engine down for the fun of it. But,,,,,, those Virago carbs make me wont to use a sledge hammer after about 30 minuets of trying to get them out.
My son has one, and the first time I took them out I actually called him after about 40 minutes and told me to bring over a sledge hammer as I was going to buy him a new set of carbs! In the 20 or so minutes it took him to get there, I had managed to get them out, but in the next 3 times I had to take them off, I seriously thought of a LARGE hammer as the proper tool.

Louis

[TADracer]

Dont know so much if it is the bike or the rider. Harleys and the other V-twin knock offs are what they are and inline fours are just a different breed of machine. All are made for a certain market and perhaps for that particulat market, they are the right machine.

It is more the mindset of the person that climbs aboard. I have riden Harleys, crotch rockets and even a scooter or two. All are fun to ride. Key word here is RIDE and that is what I am, a rider. Not a biker or a poser or 'living the lifestyle' but just a rider. I just dont get off on wearing a German style helmet or a bandana over my face or having a manufacturer's logo patched all over my clothes. Have you seen some Harley boots? The logo is even on the sole. No, I just ride because I love the sound and wind and freedom and sorry, I dont need a marketing company to tell me how I should do it.

[Crazcnuk]

Back in the late 70's early 80s 4s were a dime a dozen. When the first v-twins (japanese) they were something new. The first ones tried to have some performance, but it was soon realized they were not going to be racers. So they tried to make them 'retro' ( call it Harley if you want, but ALL the bikes used to look like that). They are good solid cruisers. My VT1100 was not far off XS11 specs. At 85hp, but a ton more torque. The Shadow would easily hit 210-220kph and had auto adjust valves and cam chains, electronic ign, and in 14 years (92,000+kms) I never had to fix anything. It was 2sec slower in the 1/4 mile, but who cares.

I have the thick, black leather jacket. I have it as armor, just in case, and what other color would I want? Blue, Red?

I also have the requisite jean vest over top, with all my pins and badges sewn into it. However, if one looks closely all the badges and pins are from places I've been or charity fund raiser events.

I have a set of black biker boots (not harley) that I rescued form the trash 15 years ago. All they needed was $8 for new soles and my roommate was throwing them out. I only wear them on long trips.

I have never owned (or driven for that matter, hmm or even ridden on) a Hardley. I've owned Suzukis, Hondas and Yamahas. I've had straight 4s, V-twins, 2 stroke triples and singles. I've never owned a chopper.

I have no interest in crotch rockets, nor choppers. I prefer deckers, but have only had 2 full deckers, and one decked Shadow.

Most I've ever paid, for a bike, is $2800, and it was used. I've had one brand new one, a birthday present from my parents for my 16th birthday. The rest have all been 3-25 years old. The latest model I've owned was the '85 VT1100 Shadow. The oldest a '69 Honda. Many of bikes were 'rescued' from being scrapped because the PO couldn't be bothered to fix them. The one, in the worst shape was the XS1100, and it is my 2nd most expensive bike ever.

The 'bikers' around here used to call us 'Hard-cores' Because we rode more than they did (and in worse weather), and because we hung out with them , and yet still hung out with regular society, and because we weren't scared to show up at their parties with 'ricers'.

My VT1100 Shadow ended up on the front cover of at least 2 Harley club publications (local) and I pulled a trailer all over western Canada/US.

I've been without a car a couple of times, but I've never been without at least one running bike, and I've driven in all kinds of weather (read: blizzard), and I have had my bikes in the kitchen or living room during the winter.

I've been videotaped by the RCMP for going to a few of those parties, but I've never had a ticket, on a motorcyle.

I've been a couple bar fights with one of the Edmonton biker gangs, but I've never belonged to one.

I ride what I ride, and I don't care what you ride, as long as you're 'in the wind'. But if you're going to argue your bike is better than mine, you better be able to back it up, with facts, not style examples.


So.. what 'lifestyle' we be talking about here?

[LoHo]

Funny, I always thought Harleys were trying to be Indians...

[prometheus578]

Isippell,
Oops, I forgot about the carb R&R issue...
Yeah, a real joy!

[Crazcnuk]

"Funny, I always thought Harleys were trying to be Indians..."

Lol, pretty much. It's really that vehicles from ANY era all look alike to people from outside that era.

Whoever said they thought all those v-twins look alike, is suffering from geezeritis.

I have a book, that my parents got me for xmas one year, about the history of cars. It has some pictures of cars from various eras, and damn if they don't all look alike in each era!

So the look the v-twins are going for is vintage, er um, 50s-60s vintage!

Now, 20 years later, the XS look is vintage....

[prometheus578]

It has some pictures of cars from various eras

HHmmm... Camaro/Firebird?
LeMans/Tempest/GTO/Chevelle/Cutlass?

The reason Harley never changed design... is that then no one would buy them.
They are what they are, and that's all they aspire to be.
Which is why they sell "Image", not performance.

[Pat Kelly]

When Virago 1st came out I called the Yamaharleys. I'm not into cruisers.
Now my wife has a Virago, 96 VX1100. It runs good, never has broken. Just oil, tire, spark plug, air filter changes occasionally.
Even being an 1100, my wife commented that on the freeway it feels under-powered. Around town it's great.
It vibrates a bit, it's too loud (Jardine slash-cut exhaust), and it has those forward controls. Either of my XS's will leave it in the dust without breaking a sweat.
It's a good bike for what it is. They certainly took a good share of the market.

[Crazcnuk]

That's the other reason I feel like the 750 Virago is a 'small' bike. I used to call it the most underpowered 750 ever made. In 'biker' circles, Viragos are a chick bike. You'll often see the guys with big Hardleys, or Gold Whales, and the ol lady has a Virago.

When I got my first Virago, that was part of the reason I traded my 650 Midnight Maxim for it. It was just too fun to crack the throttle on the Maxim. I had just got married and was trying to learn to drive like a 'responsible' adult.

[Special Ed]

“And Malber... the 11 isn't ‘Special’... it's ‘Standard.” Quote Prom.
Sorry Prom, my 11 is very special!
Why dis the V twins? The Ducatti is one of the hottest bikes on two wheels! Of course it isn’t even trying to be anything like a Harley, and some refer to its configuration as an “L twin.”
I rather like the power band of the V twin. Thumpers have their thing, and V twins are like slightly smoother versions of big singles. When my ship comes in I’d like to invest in a Kiwi Indian, just to putt around on.
Also, top on my list of wanted bikes is a Moto Guzzi Falcone: a 500 c.c. Horizontal single with radial fins and external flywheel, exposed hairpin valve springs and very interesting suspension. What an interesting bike! Looks a bit like a motorcycle powered by a large Maytag washing machine motor. It would make one hell of an interesting chopper!
But what was the origional question? Oh yeah…
The Virago is no more trying to be a Harley than it is trying to be a Vincent or a Ducatti: it is what it is.
E.Liberty