How many guns do you own? POLL

[mro]

Re: Scandinavian countries

some how double posted when I was editing out an extra word

so....


mro

[oseaghdha]

Originally posted by Crazcnuk

"I don't want the Government's help regarding ANYTHING. "(MAX)

I have to call bull on this one. You depend on your gov't for pretty much everything. Your Job, your standard of living, the mere fact that you're still alive, considering your attitudes is all attributable, in large part to your gov't.

Now that's a very telling comment.
Personally, I don't want the gubmint to stick it's big nose anywhere near my business. I live my life in spite of it, not for or because of it. Maybe that's the difference between The Great White North and the States. It's not your fault though, ya'll had that whole Queen thing going on for a long time.

Brings to mind a couple of quotes:
"Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys." -PJ O'Rourke

"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help." -Ronald Reagan

[malber]

Originally posted by oseaghdha


Now that's a very telling comment.
Personally, I don't want the gubmint to stick it's big nose anywhere near my business. I live my life in spite of it, not for or because of it. Maybe that's the difference between The Great White North and the States. It's not your fault though, ya'll had that whole Queen thing going on for a long time.

Brings to mind a couple of quotes:
"Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys." -PJ O'Rourke

"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help." -Ronald Reagan

So if that's the case will you:
Never again drive on an interstate highway?
Refuse FEMA assistance if your house is destroyed by a tornado?
Return your social security income to the government after you retire?

[Crazcnuk]

Thats what everyone says, unfortunately it's not true. The fact that you are discussing this at all is only because our respective gov'ts allows it.

It's very easy to say that one doesn't have anything to do with thier gov't. but I bet we can find a hundred ways you rely on it every day.

As for socialism being a failure depends on how you look at it, since it seems to be the most succesful system on the planet, once we got rid of Monarchies!

The problem is the usual human nature 'all or nothing'. People can't get around a combination of capitalism/socialism, even though that is what the vast majority of countries actually are.

What balance you want/get depends on the people involved in voting. Most the people who complain the loudest, about thier gov't, tend to be the ones who do little or nothing about it, except complain.

Many also confuse the system with the personalities of the current adminstration...

[olebiker]

Originally posted by malber


So if that's the case will you:
Never again drive on an interstate highway?
Refuse FEMA assistance if your house is destroyed by a tornado?
Return your social security income to the government after you retire?

Pay the government back for you education, deny your children a public education.
And please if you need an ambulance or if your house catches fire do not call 911.

Theses blanket statements just don't fly no matter were you stand.

[Crazcnuk]

The point is these are all gov't services, along with hundreds more. So to say you want no help from, or you get nothing from your gov't is the blanket statement that is false.

Those statements are exactly the same as the 16yr old that wants no interference from his/her parents, but is there every Friday for his/her allowance, lives at home, wears clothes and eats food paid for by mommy and daddy and then says "my parenst do nothing for me, they are so unfair"

[malber]

Or here's another two:
Who's side would you consider yourself on, Timothy McVeigh or the Federal Government?
Do you stop using the Internet because it was created by Al Gore?

[mro]

egsols

Don't feel alone...
Was recently checking on some obscure crap in Michigan.
Ran across a county ordinance there that if you allowed weeds to grow higher than ten inches in your front yard you could be fined.

socialism here and now
At cross purposes is the education establishment. One is that there is no accountability for a teachers results for educating a student. Teachers blame everything but there abilities. Political correctness has dominated education and educating the children is only secondary. A real teacher complaint is that problem students parent(s) are not involved or don't care enough about the child's progress or lack of. This is true but is directly related to a failed welfare system that helped destroy the family unit and did not promote family values and rewarded single mothers who had more children even while in the system. Self perpetuating government dependence and control.

In an organization that wants to succeed you put the most experienced/capable people in the most demanding positions. In a socialist environment that won't happen, and does not happen in the education system we have. The most experienced will wind up in the easiest positions leaving the new and unexperienced to deal with the worst problems.


mro
I don't know...sometimes I think...I think too much
and maybe see things that may not really be there, then again...........

[Meatloaf]

Originally posted by egsols
Hey MRO,

The town I have my business in is planning a new Noise Control by-law that wants to prohibit, among other things, the use of a horn, whistle, alarm, bell, gong, etc. except as part of a religious service; detonation of explosives, operation of an air conditioner, loud stero systems, and squealing tires. In addition they want to restrict the hours of use of construction equipment, power and hand tools, opertaion of dirt bikes, snowmobiles as well as "screaming and yelling" in residential areas, between 9 p.m. and 7 a.m. They go on to say that "Use of hammers, saws, lawnmowers and power tools would only be permitted between 7 a.m. and 9.p.m. in residential areas Monday to Friday, 9 a.m. to 9 p.m. on Saturdays and banned altogether on Sundays and holidays.

And this is in "free" Canada?

Holy crap, I must be writing too long, Fredintoon and olebiker replied before me.

So let me get this straight....your town council siezed power in a military coup backed by the Canadian armed forces?

Sorry, just trying to understand the connection between your locally elected soccer moms not letting you mow your lawn at 2 AM and the issue of freedom on a national scale.

[Crazcnuk]

It's just the emotinally immature adults running around wanting all the benefits of society without any responsibilities.

[Pat Kelly]

You want socialism look no farther that the Home Owners Association . You buy your house, pay your property tax. And some dingus tells you what shade of taupe you can paint it. (no HOA in my neighborhood).
Are labor unions a form of socialism?

I hate talking politics, what am I doing here?

[malber]

Originally posted by Pat Kelly
Are labor unions a form of socialism?

Yes, a form of collectivism.

[mro]

Someone had to mention Social Security

Worst investment there is.
Was fine for it's origanal intent, but it became more than it should have.

My generation, work 50 years or so and get very little in return for SS. Current SS taxes (including medicare) 15.7 percent.

Was figured for me. If all my SS taxes had been put into modest investments would have had close to a millon dollars now, and when I die the remaing money if any could go to my children. The amount of a SS payment are deturmined by how much you earn in the last five years of employment only. So if you are one who had a decent income for 40 years and your job goes south (or over seas) and you wind up in a low paying job for those last five years don't quit because the previous 40 years do not count and your SS check will be based on the low paying job only.

Another great thing about SS taxes is that not everyone has to pay them. Some "professionals", some government employees and certain types of income are not subject to SS Tax. BUT same individual that did not have to pay can work but five years in a SS Taxable posistion and have a fatter SS check than one who had to pay it all there life.

mro

[MAXIMAN]

Originally posted by Crazcnuk
I have to call bull on this one. You depend on your gov't for pretty much everything. Your Job, your standard of living, the mere fact that you're still alive, considering your attitudes is all attributable, in large part to your gov't.

I find it amusing that people, living in any country feel that they are doing so completely outside the system they grew up in! It's ludicrous.

No actually YOU'RE ludicrous. And you keep beating yourself up and proving my point. You are obviously one of those pathetic socialist that believe the referee is the what the game is all about.

ARE you SERIOUS MAN? hahahahahahahaha!!! The government is the reason I exist? The reason I work and produce. My standard of living is dependent on the government? You're serious.....seriously....you mean it?

All I can say...All I have to say....is...if you really really believe that non-sense then..........you are a moron. Shouldn't surprise me. You can't even comprehend plain english.

If calling a spade a spade gets me kicked off this board so be it. But I'm willing to bet about 75% of the members at this place would whole heartedly agree that if you believe the government is the reason we all "prosper" ...the reason we are alive...and that is exactly what you said then you are a MORON. There is no getting around it. I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt. But with those idiotic statements you have proven beyond any doubt that is what you are.

Now to take it a step farther...that way of thinking in and of it's self borders on tyranny. Tyranny is a government in which absolute power is vested over the people. That is what you are promoting.

The government produces nothing. All the damned government can do is TAKE what I've produced and redistibute it to ILK such as yourself.

Now for the rest of you reading this. This exchange fo open unrestrained thoughts and opinons has not only been an interesting thread but has been a very enlightening thread. I had no idea it would turn into a verbal "fist to cuff" over socialism. But now I am glad it has. Why?

You have ALL just been exposed to the truth of the way most liberals (NOT ALL so don't get your panties in a wad people)...but most liberals believe. Most (not all) are extremely dependent on the government and think every one else should be too. Most (not all) are very very pro-socialism. They believe the government is the reason for your existance.

Don't think for ONE moment Crazcanuk doesn't represent the majority on the left. This is exactly where the left is taking us....farther and farther toward more government control, more wealth redistribution, and an growing fungus of infringements on individual rights.

All you have to do is read Hillary Clinton's "It Takes A Village" to know this is exactly where mainstream lefties want to take the whole world and Crazcanuk is right in the middle of it wanting his "daddy"... the government...to wipe his and everyone elses little touchey from cradle to grave.........blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh hhhhh!

I think I'll go vomit now.



Peace ... I'm outta here...debating people like this is about as challenging as talking to a fence post... ...and even less productive.

PS: I'm all for gun control. I think everybody should be able to HIT THE TARGET!

[egsols]

Meatloaf,

Trickles down.

Just trying to point out apparent sacrifices of freedom in exchange for so-called protection of society.

Every rule seems to stem from some Ahole forgetting, what was that called again, oh yeah, common sense

BTW many thanks to MAXIMAN for initiating this wounderful political banter.