Sad Story - Fuel Economy

[MAXIMAN]

I just bought one of these babies for the "boss". She was tired of pouring $80 into a Navigator everytime she need fuel.



It's a VW Beetle with 1.9L turbo-diesel. I bought it on ebay and went up to Toledo to pick it up. These Diesel Beetles are very hard to find used - thus the distance.

Anywho...I drove it from Toledo to Terra Haute at 82 mph and it got 44 mpg. From Terra Haute to St. Louis I picked up the pace closer to 90 mph. It killed the mileage!!! The bug only got 43!

So from SL to the house I decided to slow down to a normal speed and only break the limit by 7 driving 77 average. The little Farvernuggen got a whopping 50 mpg!

It's rated at 90+ hp and 170 ft-lbs torque. Too bad Zilla won't do this.

FARVERGNUGGEN BABY!!! FARVERGNUGGEN!

[DiverRay]

I know Maximan, I've been telling people around here to go diesel for years. I only get about 16MPG with the beast, but it's a 3/4 ton, 4 wheel drive suburban that is over 6,000lbs empty. It runs on Biodiesel, out of the pump here in Santa Cruz.
My rental last month in France was a diesel as well. The VW Polo got great mileage, and it only had 200 miles on it when I got it!

[mro]

Ray

If you get the opertunity, check out the difference between 3/4 and one ton intake manifolds. The one ton manifold should be a direct bolt on and may increase both HP and milage.

_________
Hey Cody, whats something like that cost???


mro

[mason79]

yeah, but aren't they dirtier for the enviorment?

[Crazcnuk]

The funny part is that none of them are really all that great.

The old Firelfly/Sprints used to get over 60mpg and they were GAS.

While, theoretically Diesels are more efficient than gas, you have to realize that, other than for lip service, the car manufacturers have no interest in fuel mileage.

Whatever the factories put out, it can be improved A LOT.

Case in point. 80's Dodge Dakota pickups. FAMOUS for 14mpg, V6 and V8, both were terrible. A friend of mine has a '91 Dakota 4x4 ext. Cab, long box with the 318cuin V8. Routinely got 12-14mpg highway at between 120-140kph (74-86mph), and as low as 8mpg pulling the trailer with the quads.

We did a basic rebuild @ 284,000kms, bored out, new pistons (9.5:1 instead of 8.7:1), new cam, new bearings, etc.

He now gets close to 100hp extra (~280 instead of 180) and 25mpg highway at 110kph. If he drives like he used to his MINIMUM mileage is 14-16mpg with the trailer on.

We did not do nearly all we could have to improve this truck.

My 502hp big block gets 14mpg at 3200rpm steady cruising. pulling a holiday trailer. I am sure, if I change the rear gear ratio to a 'normal' set, rather than the 3.70's I run now (I have no overdrive) I would be in the 20's which is better than most V8 trucks considering the HP I am getting.

Basically, you look at your engine specs and if your not getting at LEAST 1hp/cuin, your engine is not very efficient. It can be improved.

Where does this leave the XS? Well, the XS is actually almost 1.5hp/cu in. The problem lies in that we expect it to be a luanch rocket. Many here have already discovered that by changing the rear diff ratio they can can improve the mileage substantially. If you could modify the bike to be running between 2000-3000rpm, steady, on the highway, I think you'd find the mileage very nice, but since the engine is fairly small torque becomes an issue.

Really, there is no reason that ALL normal passenger vehicles or P/U trucks are not getting 30mpg, or better. A few have been getting over 50mpg over the years, a couple in the 60's. For most it's just a matter of a cam change.

Fuel economy is a matter of properly matching engine size to the job to be done, then making as efficient an engine as possible. For most trucks instead of having a 318, 327, 350, 383 or 400 cuin engine at 180-240hp, they should be running 265, 283, 302 or 327cu in engines running 280-350hp.

Not to rain on your parade, but the mid 80's Ford Tempo Diesels were getting 50+ mpg at 80mph....for a LOT less money.

[yadada]

Every diesel I drive behind stinks. Though I can't remember driving behind a bug. Maybe they don't stink. I still hate getting diesel for father's truck or rental equipment. Pumps and the area around them are always filthy.

That being said, our next pickup is a diesel most likely.

[DiverRay]

Crazcnuck,
You need to remember, this is the land of the free, and big oil. We don't get ANY of the nice cars built for the rest of the world. I have driven and ridden in some of the cars and small trucks in France, and wish we could get them here. The Dino diesel here had a high sulfur content, and with the particulates they put out, the engines were banned. Ford builds some nice Turbo Diesel cars, but we don't see them.
The Bio diesel still smells if you are behind it, but as I run the B99, 99% veg. oil Bio, it doesn't smell bad at all. Sorta like a fryer working nearby.
Ray

[Crazcnuk]

Just stay out of bear country!

Basically, anyone who wants better power and fuel economy, just has to look at a cam change.

This works best for V8's and most V6's. Most of the 4's are fairly efficient, but there is always room for more.

My 2005 Dodge SX is rated at 48mpg. I got close to 45mpg once, at about 50,000kms, but then they replaced the engine for a warranty issue, and now I have to wait for the new one to break in.

It comes down to money. Big Oil knows it's doomed. There is no shortage, never will be, as we have to cut down our usage faster than we will run out. So they are trying to wring every last nickel they can out of every barrel, as quickly as possible. It makes no sense for them to push automakers into using thier product slower.

[bigb9582]

Originally posted by Crazcnuk


Not to rain on your parade, but the mid 80's Ford Tempo Diesels were getting 50+ mpg at 80mph....for a LOT less money.

i used to have a 86 ford tempo diesel, 2.0L 5spd. i was getting 55+mpg at 70mph on the interstate, and around 45+mpg city driving.
still wish i had it now, even tho it was a slug.
80mph was pushing it in those cars!! mine felt maxed out at 75mph, 80 downhill maybe.

best gas car i owned was a 91 toyota tercel, 1.5l 4spd. 35+ on the intersate at 70mph and around 30mpg around town.

now i rockin a 03 kia sorento ex, 3.5l auto. 16-18 mpg highway and 14-16mpg city.

[The Lorax]

You know, when I was overseas (India) the most popular mode of transportation, or maybe the only one they could afford across the board as poverty is rampant over there was a honda 100cc single cylinder. they were everywhere, the billboards that advertised them claimed 108km/l. if my calculations are correct that is 240 miles to the gallon (US). they only have a top speed of about 50 mph but if you lived in a sprauling metropolis and were doing the city commute thing (no highways) that could be useful. just a thought. oh and diesl vehicles were another popular item as taxis and such. however, in dehli, all public transportation vehicles (taxis, buses, auto - rickshaws) are required to run on compressed natural gas, don't know how efficient that is, but it seems to burn cleaner. just a random thought on a semi - related subject

[oldbiker648]

As a former Honda S90 (1965) owner, I can tell you that 240MPG is total BS for a 100CC machine. I'd go for something over 90MPG, but unless carbueration has improved by a lightspeed factor, nothing over 100MPG. My daily driver cage gets better gas mileage than my '80G, but I'll leave it in the driveway any day I can ride the XS. I'm waiting for the first lister to install the VW Diesel into an XS-11 trike and report on fuel economy and driveability.

[Crazcnuk]

My Suzuki A100 would do over 80mph.

It was a single cylinder 2-stroke with a 4spd transmission. I never thought to see what it got for gas mileage.

[MAXIMAN]

Of course the drawback to ths Bug is acceleration. I think it turns the quarter in about 18....that's 18 minutes!

Seriusly it's not that bad. But at 50+ MPG I can deal with it.

I filled it with a biodiesel mixture in Illinois the other day and could barely smell the stuff. Much more pleasant than regular diesel.

My F250 has a powerstroke...makes almost 300 hp chipped and 600 ft-lbs. I've gotten as high as 21 mpg. It weighs almost 8000 lbs ...is a crew cab 4x4. Of course the only way I can get that mileage is by driving 60 mph. If you try that on an interstate you'll get run over.

However I talked to a fellow Diesel Bug owner and he tells me if he slows down to 60 mph he can get almost 60 mpg!!!

The reason car makers have no interest in building gas getters is there is no DEMAND. People would rather have their speed/acelleration instead of a sluggish car that will get 55 mpg. I suppose that's the trade off. But for this application it's a trade I'll gladly take.

I am also very impressed with the ride quality of the Beetle. I drove it 950 miles from Toledo to OK. It was very smooth and quite and my back didn't hurt at all afterward. Not something I can say about my F250.

We'll be saving about $250/month in fuel vs. the Navigator...that alone will pay for the Beetle.

Again I say ... Farvergnuggen BABY!

[79XS11F]

Just for the record ... Diesel fuel is one of the most carcinogenic substances on the face of this earth. Think about that every time you fill up and handle the dirty pumps suck up it's fumes when the engine is not in tip top tune. It's also dirty and smelly. I won't go near the stuff.
Rob

[MAXIMAN]

Originally posted by 79XS11F
Just for the record ... Diesel fuel is one of the most carcinogenic substances on the face of this earth.
I won't go near the stuff.
Rob

And gasoline ISN'T?