freeing stuck cylinders

[prometheus578]

what if the rings are rusted and glued to the pistons. How do you remove the rings????????

Getting rings offa pistons is easy. Seized engines are usually caused by the rings rusting to the walls and the walls having a real nice layer of rust, too. Piston are not gonna move. You can't even remove the cylinder from the case, as the pistons hold in tight.
After letting this one soak for a week in all sort of concoctions, I still couldn't get the pistons to move, nor, obviously, the cylinder to come off.
Out came the hammer and a block of wood.
After a day of beating #1 and #4 pistons,(which broke loose from the cylinder walls), #2 and #3 started to move upward, taking the cylinder up with them.
I don't recommend this method if you want to save the pistons.

[2bhappy]

Lets say that you want to try to save the pistons. Once you are able to get the pistons out, is there an easy way to remove the rings to save the pistons?

Marc

[81xsproject]

The Coke method would probably work well for heavy rust. But, if you are going to go that route, you can save a whole lot of time and just use CLR which has way more phosphoric acid that coke.

I finished constructing my grease-gun/spark plug adapter last night. However on the bike I am working on now, it is not frozen in a position that any of the cylinders have both valves closed so I am going to have to pull the cam. On the pluss side there is only one .

[prometheus578]

I've rarely encountered rings stuck to a piston... unless we're talkin' an engine that seized due to heat, and the pistons have melted around the rings a bit.
Rings just spread apart a little and move out of the groove and lift offa the engine.
Just reread your post:

what if the rings are rusted and glued to the pistons

Try some penetrating oil, etc, and then, at the ring gap, try to get behind the ring and pry it out. Rings are probably gonna be trashed.

[81xsproject]

I just thought I would post a pic of my creations of jetmechmarty's idea. It did indeed move the cylinders. And you should'a seen the the giant grease turd come shooting out of the spark plug hole !

[jetmechmarty]

That's it! Works every time. I can't take the credit. I first learned it from Fredn'toon when he posted it on the XS650 list. A local friend of mine uses the method to free old tractor engines.

[prometheus578]

"Ah, the wonders of hydraulics!"

you should'a seen the the giant grease turd come shooting out of the spark plug hole

(Oh, could I have had fun with that line...)

[xs650mike]

I busted Alcan Alice (my freebie XS650 with 750 kit) loose by squirting a small amount of MMO into the cylinders and then filled them with diesel fuel (I suppose kerosene would work just as well). I let the bike sit for a day and then removed the liquid with Melissa Ethridge's member (turkey baster with vinyl tubing attached). Rocked the bike back and forth in top gear and it broke right loose. Put on a set of clean carburetors and it fired right up. Shut it down and changed the oil. Compression check showed 120 lbs in left cyl. and 140 lbs. in right. At Hal Kenyon's suggestion I rode it hard for a couple hundred miles to re-seat the rings. Compression check then showed 160 lbs left and 155 lbs right.

Don't think I'd use Coke or WD40 but whatever works for you...

[81xsproject]

Even after being broken loose, I still can't get it to turn over from the rear wheel. I can hear either the clutch plates slipping, or a chain jumping teeth when I get it rolling, jump on, and dump the clutch in 5th.

[prometheus578]

Ok, so it's busted loose. Can you rotate the engine freely with a wrench, or is it busted loose, meaning there's now some free play to the pistons.
Sure, you've broken the bond of rust to the cylinder walls, but what of the rust still on the walls?
And just what kind o' condition are the rings in?
If the engine doesn't rotate freely, then there's to much crap on the cylinder walls.
Busting the pistons loose... just enables you now to pull the head, see what's what, and possably now you can yank the cylinders off for a quick hone if needed.

[mro]

I just thought I would post a pic of my creations of jetmechmarty's idea.

I first learned it from Fredn'toon when he posted it on the XS650 list.

BTW, did you guys know some dude is trying to get a patent on your "grease plug adpter"


mro

[fredintoon]

"BTW, did you guys know some dude is trying to get a patent on your "grease plug adapter"
Yeah,
and some clown back in the '30s tried to patent the wheelbarrow.
Another case of getting a Patent for ripoff purposes was the genius back in the 18th century who patented the crank then went round to James Watt's house with his hand out.
Mr Watt kicked the fellow out then dreamed up 14 devices that weren't cranks but did the same job.

[prometheus578]

"I'll have you know I'm the original crank."

Patents are nice. Doesn't mean we can't build the thing, just can't sell it for profit, etc.
Patent away, Buddy... very limited use, not gonna be too many buyers.
Like the "Carb Float Pin Remover" that Ken, (et al) worked out.
Incredible tool.. works like a dream... I used it often in the shop...
But, not really marketable... works great for our carbs, but not too many other applications. Cryin' shame.

[fredintoon]

AKA the automatic centerpunch?

"Like the "Carb Float Pin Remover" that Ken, (et al) worked out.
Incredible tool.. works like a dream... I used it often in the shop...
But, not really marketable... works great for our carbs, but not too many other applications."
Hi Pro,
I bought mine at House of Tools for ~$15 Canadian (It was the good one, the $5 one looked kinda shoddy) Besides it's primary use of shockloading float pins loose without damaging those frail cast bearing pillars, I have also used it for a centerpunch. It can be very accurately set on the scribed lines for it's teensy dent to act as a starter for a solid centerpunch to be whacked with a FBH to make a dent the drill bit won't climb out of.