A question 4 experienced Ebayers

[MAXIMAN]

I recently locked horns with the powers that be at the mega giant monopoly EBAY. They accused me of shill bidding. They are wrong but that is a different story altogether.

After they suspended my accoutn for the alledged shill they removed two items I had up for auction. These items had nothing to do with the alledged shilling.

If I prematurely remove an item from listing I am still obliged to pay the listing fee. However in this instance EBAY removed the listings not me. And they are demanding a listing fee for these items.

It seems to me this is wrong. It would be like if I paid for a 7 day classified ad and the newspaper only ran the ad for 3 days then pulled the ad for no reason...but still demanded the full fee for the listing.

What say you? ( no no I can't stand O'reilly!...or is it Bill Oh Really? )

[Dsxs11]

You won't win it and Ebay does it alot. Seems the system takes just about any bid from the same ISP as a shill bid. They won't refund your listing fee and they won't reinstate your auction. I've been down this road before and pretty much stopped doing any business on EBay and when I bought something recently I was threatened 2 hours after I got the invoice that I had not paid and they would leave a neg feedback. I'm pretty much done with EBay. Goodluck and EBay wins because it's the only game out there.

[JWSanders]

Were they able to provide evidence for the shill bids?

At any rate though, I think their Terms of Service allow them to cancel all the auctions of a suspected violator. They can still charge you for it as well, since you supposedly were the one to violate the TOS.

To be honest, I'm rather amazed that they even brought it up. It would have to be reported to them, I'd imagine. They wouldn't do it on their own, of that I'm pretty certian. They couldn't give a crap unless someone complains.

If it's just a couple of insertion fees, and you're through with Ebay, then screw 'em. What are they going to do, come after you for 20 bucks or less? That option might require you to cancel the card you're using with them however....

If not, then there probably isn't much you can do but pay it and eat crow. If they haven't provided proof of it, then I would start there. Demand proof.

[MAXIMAN]

Well it seems Ebay's increased enforcement of their shill bidding policy is like the pot calling the kettle black. I'm starting to think this bogus crackdown on shilling by Ebay is a shill in and oof itself to get the heat off them.

Ebay sued for shill bidding themselves!

Ds - You may be right but it still doesn't change the fact that it is blatantly wrong to demand lisitng fees for listings they have cancelled. Not only is it wrong...according to counsel it may be illegal.

So they did it to you too? Join the throngs of thousands they've done this to. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they get a class action slapped on them for this non-sense as well. It seems the powers that be at Ebay have their legal hands full. All I can say is it's their own fault.

Wes - They did not provide evidence of the alledged shill bid. They gave no item number it supposedly occured on and they gave no date...nothing. They just sent an accusation then suspended my account and removed several items I had for bid.

Until this I didn't even know what a shill bid was. When I read their shill bidding blurb I was really pissed because I've never done this.

To accuse me of shill bidding with no proof and suspend my account without at least asking a few questions is bad enough. But to demand payment for a service they never provided is absurd, immoral, and maybe illegal regardless of the TOS agreement. An attorney has told me it doesn't matter what you agreed to in a TOS...if the TOS is illegal it's irrelavant.

But I have no idea what he'll come up with. Likely nothing. However it will be interesting to see if Ebay's "YOU PAY FOR OUR MISTAKES" policy will stand the scrutiny of the law. We shall see.

[MAXIMAN]

Wes one more thing.

I've demanded proof numerous times in the past 10 days. All I get back is form letters that say the same thing.

Their customer service does NOT stink. Their customer service is non-existent.

[Dsxs11]

In my case I listed items from the system at work. no bids the first 2 days then a bid from the system at work. I was accused of shill bidding the auction was canceled and I had to pay listing fee's. Try to find a customer service number for E Bay it's impossible. When you read that it looks like I may have shill bid it. But I work for General Motors in Pontiac and the bid from a GM Facility in California. As for class action lawsuits against E Bay I'll pass I was int he Net Flix class action and all I got was a free rental. The real problem is the listing fee is usually less then 5 bucks and the legal fee's to get your 5 bucks back could run into the thousands. EBay sucks and they have the market cornered. And when you have the market cornered then you can pretty much do as you please. I don't think it's right matter of fact I'm pretty much against it. But is it worth 50 Grand to get 5 bucks back? The best cure I've found is cancel your ebay account cancel your paypal (ebay company) and not shop there. And if you have to register a new name everytime and and pay with credit card without a paypal account. Seems Ebay hates that.

[trbig]

I had shill bidding happen to me on a couple occasions. With a few minutes to go, a bidder who hadn't bid until then ran the bid up in steps until he got the high bid... then retracted his last bid leaving me the highest bidder. With less than a minute to go, they did the same thing... I guess trying to see if I had increased my max bid. I complained to Ebay and heard nothing back ever... but still paid for the auction since I thought it was worth what I bid. It just pissed me off the way it was done.

Like you guys say though.. not much else you can do about it alone.

Tod

[MAXIMAN]

Ds

No it's not worth 50 grand to fight for 50 bucks. But the law firm tha sued them takes some cases pro bono fi they think they can choke a buck out of Ebay.

I'd like to see someone choke more than a buck out of those maggots.

TOD..What happened to you is bullshill. Literally!

The policy of allowing people to retract bids is insane! AFAIC if you bid your bid is permanent. It is utter nonsense to alow people to retract bids. Thi idiotic policy actually encourage shill bidding.

[79XS11F]

another way you can get hosed is when after the price has been driven up you loose but receive a "2nd chance" offer to buy at the last price you bid. there is also the "friend" from a different ISP who can drive the price up and if the friend wins the item never changes hands.
Rob

[JWSanders]

Well Cody, I don't doubt it.

But I'm like you...I'd fight just for the sake of fighting bull**it. Screw them. They should have to at the very least provide proof. From what I've read just poking around now, if you don't want to pay them, your only real option is to cancel the card you have subscribed with them before they charge it. They will charge it weather your account is active or not. I've cancelled cards for less....

Hell, I have well over 100 auctions that fall into the date range of that lawsuit. I find it interesting that it was filed over 2 years ago and there hasn't been any update (that I can find) on it. You'd think that the firm would be persuing getting as many people involved as possible. Makes me wonder how it's progressing.

Like I've said, I must be lucky when it comes to Ebay. I have never had a bid raised at the end, as alleged in the lawsuit. Nor have I ever had a higher bid cancelled before the end. I've bid aggressively (in the last minute or so ) on a LOT of stuff that I haven't won. At least 10 times the number of things I have won. Looking back, it's probably a good thing.

But then again, bidding late is likely a big factor in why I have had fewer problems.

I've sold several hundred items on there, and not a one went awry. Admittedly though, that was several years ago. I only sell random stuff anymore. It's quite a bit different now. Way bigger than can be managed easily. It's a wonder Ebay can even operate at all.

79, I don't necessarily see that as getting hosed, If it's within the range of what you were wanting to bid. Now, if the price was shilled up, sure...but how do you know? At least you can just say no and get it somewhere else. 90% of the time I get a 2nd chance offer I've either already bought it in another auction or found something else more interesting anyway.

I haven't reached the point were I think every auction is fraud yet. Hell, the last few things I've bought from there were "Buy it Now". Still cheaper than anywhere else, even after shipping.

[MAXIMAN]

Honestly I don't understand "shilling". Oh yes I understadn what they are saying...but if you bid with you HEAD you can not get shilled.

I learned man years ago the only way for me to bid. It is very simple.

For instance...I see a 4-1 header on ebay. It's very nice but not perfect. I can get a new one from MAC for $349. So I decided the very most I will pay for this one is $180...THAT'S IT...NO MORE!!!

I wait until the last minute...literally...and I place a bid of $200 so I don't loose it by a few buck. If some one else gets it for $205 then I don;t fell bad because I bid $20 over what I wanted to anyway. If I get it $202.50 then I got it for a little more than what I wanted but it's all good. If I get it for less then all the better.

I absolutely refuse to get caught up in a bidding war. In the last minute if the ppipe is already past $180 or $200...I just close the window and forget it. I've already made up my mind what I'll pay and I don;t go anymore...it;s that simple.

A lot of people have trouble grasping this concept. The get caught up in competitive bidding and this insane notion of "winning" like it's some sort of competition. I just don't play that game...it's that simple. I would guess 90% of the time I get the item and usually for quite bit less than my only and maximum bid.

I learned years ago if I placed my maximum bid early then some one would always bid it up to that days before the auction was ended. It's kinda like showing your hand to the other players. So I don;t show my hand anymore. I just wait and snipe it. It's much much simpler that way.

If I were to start a competive busines to Ebay I would run it like a sealed bid auction. Not this BS live auction crap. A live auction doesn't go on for days on one item. The auctioneer will can it in a mtter of minutes. This live auction non-sense online is a shill in itself.

There should be a type of online auction similar to sealed bidding. An Item would be placed on auction for example 7 days. At anytime during that seven day period you could place a bid...one bid only...so you better make it count. At the end of the auction whomever placed the highest bid would win the item for whatever their bid amount was. If there are two idnetical high bids the first one received would win. there would be no bid retractions period. This setup would cut through all the BS that currently happens at ebay with shilling, competitive bidding, retractions and all other non-sense that goes on at Ebay.

Thoughts?

[Dsxs11]

The last few great deals I've got were on craigslist. Bought the 11 on craigs with 15K for 650.00 no bidding no BS just a good old fashioned face to face deal. Any type of auction can be rigged and I think the sealed bid auctions would tend to be easier to shill.

[Bud Manley]

Pay em then go to small claims court.

Send a registered letter of demand for payment. Then sue for damages (the amount they screwed you for) plus costs(court costs, time spent etc...)

[Kurt]

Ebay is the Microsoft of the online auction world. they can do whatever they want, and get away with it because not too many people will contest it.

If more people fight back after getting hosed, they would eventually be forced to be fair.

Just my 2cents

[jetmechmarty]

eBay is full of scammers and it is largely self policing.

I went to "eBay University" a few months ago and I learned a few things. They did point out ways you could be accused of "shill bidding".

With patience you should be able to work through this problem using their "live help". I've pulled my hair out over it a few times myself.

The problem is that if you want to buy and sell stuff like old motorcycle and car parts, it isn't the only game in town, but it might as well be. It may be best to use their system and fix the problem. My X got kicked off eBay a few years ago and managed to straighten it out and get back on. They don't make it easy.

Relax, take a deep breath, suck it up and go fix it. You may choose to stay away, but they (eBay) really don't care. It can prove the best market for your stuff.