76 trombones in the big parade... and a clarinet

[Wildkat]

Okay... so every other subject has been touched on in this forum...
Let's try this one...

Two girls starting band in the Fall... one playing the trombone... one playing the clarinet. I play the flute, meaning I know absolutely nothing about these two instruments (except that they are kind of expensive)...

So... one... what should I look for when buying these instruments?

From what I have found on the trombone... I guess the slide should move easily... but what about bell size and bore size?
On the clarinet... I'm guessing the pads (like on a flute) but what else do I need to look for?

and two... does anyone have either of these they would be willing to part with for a small amount of money?
(Sell that unused instrument in the closet to buy more XS stuff)

Thanks to anyone who can help!

[prometheus578]

Clarinet

Check the cork gaskets that fit between the sections.

[EZMoney]

Kat
Both my boys played wind instruments and I found and also was told that if you are buying a used one, the best thing is to take it to a local music supply and repair shop and have it appraised. They will tell you what it is worth and what is wrong with it. I know nothing about musical instruments and thought the sax we first looked at was just fine, shop told me we should look for another one, we did and with a little work it was ok.
If you buy a good one you will also be able to resell it when they are done with it.

My $0.02 worth

[Jerry]

trombones rock!

As a former trombone player....

As with used cars and bikes, condition is probably more important than brand. Make sure there are no dents / dings in any of the tubing and the bell. Pull off the slide and check for any signs of wear; the slides are chrome-plated and any wear with show up as scratches or wear points where the chrome has worn off. 'Bones have a spit valve; check the pad there to make sure it is sealing OK. If your student is going to play in cold weather (at footbal games and such) you might see if the seller has a 2nd mouth piece. The cold-weather ones are usually a plastic mix instead of metal.

Anoher point to check is the tuning part of the 'bone; this is ususally the back loop that goes up to the main bell. This loop can slide back and forth a bit (about 1 inch is typical) to tune the trombone; it shoul not move easily but not overly stiff; a small steady push/pull should be able to move it and it can be taken all the way off to check the condition of the tubing. Green and grungy is not good here.....

Trombones, like many brass instruments, are coated with a laquer finish. Ideally the coating should be intact, with no peeling, stripping, of bubbling.

Sorry to say my trombone went to a nephew, can't help you there. My parents (4 kids in band, 2 woodinds, 2 brass) and our family (SWMBO on recorder, 2 kids in band) have almost always bought used instruments from a dealer. The music director can sometimes refer a former student who is not going to continue band after high school who may have an insturment to sell. (A recorder, FWIW, is something like a clarinet without valves and reed mouthpiece and can come in any of 4 'voices' such as suprano, alto, tenor, and base.)

While prices are always a concern, we have found there is almost always a direct relationship between price, quality of construction, and musical quality. More expensive 'bones sound better and are better built. IMHO, given that any musical interest is like to be a life-long trait, get the best trombone you can afford, even if you have to stretch the budget a bit.

[Wildkat]

Thanks all!

Great info Jerry! Thanks a bunch for that!

Yeah... I know a good instrument is going to be more expensive and worth it in the long run (as long as they continue playing)... I started out in Junior High with a hand me down flute that belonged to my sister... nickle plated. I never realized how poor the quality of sound was until my Mom bought me a really decent silver flute... That was 25 years ago and I still play it... and it still sounds good.

They both played recorders in the school choir and are in the bell choir at church (have been for a few years now)... so I'm hoping that they will stick with band for awhile and make an investment in a decent instrument worth it.

It's a terrible conundrum... buy a cheap instrument and a kid with some talent might get discouraged and not want to play because they can't get a good sound... buy an expensive instrument... and it might be wasted on one that doesn't want to practice...

[fredintoon]

Rent?

Hi Wildkat,
Our local musical instrument store rents out all manner of instruments to students,
betcha there's one near you that does that too. Renting gives you a reasonable instrument to learn on and if your girls find the trombone or clarinet ain't for them after all you ain't stuck with the instruments afterwards neither.
Fred Hill, S'toon.

[jetmechmarty]

Trombone

Hi Wildkat!

I play trombone. Since I got a little money playing it this year, I guess that makes me a professional

The previous posts have good advice. In a used horn, make sure the runs smooth and the tuning slides are free. There are a lot of good buys on eBay. I have a YAMAHA flute to put on there soon.

Renting a new one may be a good option. It may be the cheapest if your daughter quits.

What's the best trombone is like asking what's the best motorcycle or what's the best oil to use. I personally don't care for a big bore horn. You won't want to pay for one right now anyway. I might recommend an "F" attachment. It would be good to learn how to use it from the "get go".

Whatever you buy is going to get beat up if your daughter sticks with it. You'll be upgrading in a few years if your daughter sticks with it.

FWIW, I love my vintage King 3b.

[Wildkat]

Thanks again!

That's very cool, Marty!


I had a feeling I would get some good info from this place... amazing diversity...

Well... I ended up getting one on E-bay... brand new with a one year warranty (we'll see how that goes) for $200 including shipping. It was a recommended model, the Conn-Selmer Prelude, by the school... sooooo...
We'll see how that goes too...

We looked into renting... but it almost would have been more expensive ($39 - $49/mnth)... A used one would probably need some adjustments that I am hoping the new one won't need.
(like buying a new bike versus a 25 year old bike... that you know need the carbs triple cleaned... again... among other things... that you don't know about... yet...)

[kjoslin]

instruments

I'm assuming they are beginners...

trombone- for the beginning player, especially young players, it is best to choose a smaller bore horn, because it takes less air to support a usable tone. Start them on a student model trombone as they are more durable. You will need valve oil to keep it lubricated. As far as a mouthpiece, have your daughter try a few sizes out to see which fit her mouth best.

Clarinet- check for good pads that don't stick and that there is one in each key cup. Make sure the bridge key (connecting upper and lower halves) is in good working condition. See if anything is bent or loose. Again, a student model would be best to start on. Usually, student models are plastic and more durable...but look for a trusted brand as there are plenty of poorly made plastic ones. Make sure the mouthpiece isn't chipped (could severely effect the tone). You will need cork grease, softer reeds for beginners and a cleaning swab.

Usually music shops rent instruments for the school year. That way you are not out a whole lot if she loses interest.

This info is from my daughter Erin, who is in her 3rd year of college training to become a music teacher. Hope this is helpful Kat.

Keith

[malber]

I've owned both in my time and have some experience with both (was a music education major for a time). However everyone else has given the advice that I would give, so I won't repeat it.

On purchasing: I see you've already gotten the trombone. For the Clarinet, if you're looking to purchase and not rent, try a pawn shop. Clarinet is a fairly popular instrument for band (easy to carry, seen as a stepping stone to the "cool" saxophone) and many end up at a pawn shop after the first year. So you can find some at a good price that haven't seen much use. The clerks at a pawn shop won't be much help when making a selection, but since you're a former woodwind player you already know the basics of what to look for: pads, as these are a favorite place for moths to lay their eggs. A mouthpiece should come with any good clarinet as well as a ligature. Make sure the mouthpiece has no cracks at the tip and the ligature isn't rusted. If there are any reeds, put one on the mouthpiece and make sure there are no major gaps on the sides between the mouthpiece and the reed. Put the instrument together to make sure the parts fit and that they go together easily. The body should have no cracks. Used clarinets I've seen may go for $75-$150 YMMV. Bundy is an all around decent student make. Durable and cheap. Plus you'll know where to take back the instrument if all doesn't work out, though look to only getting half what you paid.

[Wildkat]

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Why do people place things up for auction... when they don't have it in stock?
Sooooo... I DON'T have the trombone (because they didn't have it in stock)... ordered a clarinet from the same place but not certain of its status at this point...

I am thanking everyone very kindly for their help and input and will take all useful information with me as I continue my quest for a good reliable trombone... muttering all the way about the cruddy business practices of certain E-bayers...

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr



Thanks again to all for your help!

[malber]

Well then, if you're still looking for a 'bone, then I have a few things to add. Once again, a pawn shop is a good place for these and most of the things to look for can be identified by appearance, such as dent and corosion on joint fittings (it'll be green from the copper content of the brass). A few things not mentioned are to check all joints for leaks. There can sometimes be pinhole leaks in the metal that can't be easily identified. Take all joints apart and blow through them with the other end sealed. A valveless 'bone with leaks will still be playable but will have intonation problems. If it has a trigger valve, make sure it's not stuck and there are no pinholes in that bend. One last thing to do is to play it. Brass instruments are probably the easiest instrument (besides piano) to make a sound. All you have to do is put the mouthpiece on the instrument and do a raspberry into it. There should be no rattling parts. If there are, pass on that one and go to the next.

After you pick the instrument and get it home, give it a good bath. Very easy to do: all you need is warm water and mild soap. Take all the parts apart and soak them. Run the soapy water through the parts and rinse through with warm water. This will get all the old dried spit out (yuck). Dry with a soft cloth. Be sure to lube the joint fittings before re-assembly, especially the slide and tuning slide. Back in my band days I remember them using petroleum jelly.