Leaning On the Handlebars

[SFerinTEXAS]

Caught myself in a bad habit. Last satuday on the way back from a brew run it occurred to me how much body weight I was putting on the bars.So for the few miles back ( 6 or 7 ) on local steets I decided to sit upright and keep my grip firm but with no weight applied. Kind of like riding a horse. Next morning I got up feeling bad in the mid section , thnking I had eated something not good. A couple hours of this agrivation passed by when it occurred to me whats going on. Have"nt done many sit ups lately except for needing a return trip from a prone induced position. Been trying hard to ride like this every trip and besides working that belly bluber I found a new sense of balance using weight shifting to steer and realizing how much steering crutch I"d been using before with my leaning into thr bars. So am the only one who gets too old fast, too smart slow? 79 SF and think my buckhorns are a ok.

[motoman]

Pretty much SFerin

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Sferin,

Some of what you have said does concern me, regarding your steering technique. You mentioned about shifting weight to get the bike to lean to turn! NO, NO, NO!!!!

When you were leaning into the bars, to turn you instinctively are pushing on them, and when you lean ie. to the right, you push on the right bar more in supporting your weight while trying to "LEAN" to the right, which then actually gets the bars involved in the proper steering technique of COUNTERSTEERING, but you may be thinking that you are just leaning to turn.

Now, that you are sitting more upright, less weight being put on the bars, you "feel" the need to lean MORE, cause you are not getting it to turn when you just lean your upright body because you are not putting as much pressure on the bars, and so you may not be doing the countersteering technique as well!

Do you know and understand what countersteering is??

Your handlebar "crutch" was not that, it was the actual proper technique to steer the bike, leaning is just what you do once the bike itself leans from the action of pushing on the bars to initiate your turn!

T.C.

[dale_1]

countersteering countersteering

ALWAYS steer with pressure......

I have one mirror which throws my aerodynamics off a little at speeds above 30..... actually countersteering my bike for me to the right....(left mirror only)

If I pull the choke out and lean way way to the left....... almost off the bike (35MPH) I can then zip my sleeves down.... (takes both hands) .......... I used this to teach my son countersteering vs. leaning.

If I am careful on his bike and not touch the steering controls I can actually lean that far over at 35 and not turn! (I only weigh about 160)

I have been known to lean and pop my back and not change lanes.......

So yes please do countersteer.....

[SFerinTEXAS]

Lazy

Guess I was looking for a cheap exercise. I have read the tips on countersteering and have demonstrated to fellow riders. didnt mean to imply that I balance steered only, just felt a bit much like a tripod trying to wear out the steer head bearings. I will check myself i"m sure. looking a little duffes maybe but some of you guys enjoy that at times I know. P.S. I never would have gotten this great machine running wiyhout all the great info on this site. I had boxes of parts from before the internet days in my attick and garage from a long ago failed attemp. Luckily also. from 3h3 series. BIG FAN OF XS11.COM

[TADracer]

Back pain....been there, done that! Been riding my 79 SF for over 25 years and got rid of the buckhorn bars almost immediately. They just kill my back for some reason. Maybe because I am kind of tall but I find bars with about a 3 1/2" rise most comfortable.

As far as countersteering vs lean steering, I think when you lean steer you are actually countersteering and dont realize it. Think about it. When you lean to the left to go left, you instinctively ease back on the right grip which causes the center of gravity to move left and the bike to turn to the left. Voila, countersteer!

[SFerinTEXAS]

Flatland

I just realized most members don"t live in an area thats flat as a pancake. In this northern colonial provice of Mexico called Houston there is virtually no terrain deviation. I lived in Monterey in the early 70's at the Presidio DLIWC. Many memories ago of Big Sur, Carmel, overheating drum brakes on my 67 Mustang driving around San Francisco, decending down from the top of Yosemity. Most roads out there are ether up, down, oe sloping left or right. NOt so here to the point of inclination deprevation. What I've been doing would not be possible in most places. I even pushed the sf home 1.5 miles a few weeks ago ( bad pick up coil solder repair ). Ask me about my solderless repair I came up with sometime. So if you don't live on the flats I can see the wonder about ny sanity in the first Post.

[fredintoon]

Everybody does it.

Countersteer, that is.
It's the only way a single-tracked vehicle can go around a corner. A rider might think that he leaned the bike to the right and it turned right. But the very first thing he did, whether he knew it or not, was to turn the bars left. This makes the bike lean to the right & turn right. Thing is, that's why kids have difficulty learning to ride a bike. As toddlers they all ride trikes. Trikes DON'T countersteer. Turn the bars right & it goes right. Put junior on a bike, Junior wants to turn right so he turns the bars to the right because that's how his trikie steered, the bike turns left, Junior falls off and Dad yells at him. Junior is too young to comprehend the theory and most likely Dad don't know about it anyway. So Junior eventually learns to countersteer by instinct. Now the calendar roll on until Junior's aging legs can't hold his XS1100 up at stop signs no more so he straps a sidecar on it or buys a tricycle conversion kit. Unless he takes instruction to unlearn decades of countersteering, the first rightie he comes to he does the instinctive slight left bar twitch to lean the rig right & turn right. Alas, it ain't a bike no more, it only looks like one and it can't lean over so the rig turns left instead. Across traffic.
Learn that solos have to countersteer.
Learn that sidecars & trikes cannot countersteer.
Or be a statistic.
Fred Hill, S'toon.

[TopCatGr58]

Re: Flatland

Originally posted by SFerinTEXAS
I even pushed the sf home 1.5 miles a few weeks ago ( bad pick up coil solder repair ). Ask me about my solderless repair I came up with sometime. .

Hey SFerinTexas,

I'm rather aged also, and I don't like hugging the tank. I, too, have put Goldwing bars on mine, and love them, along with setbacks, I have a nice custom made backrest, so I can sit up or even slightly recline and drive very comfortably!

Okay, show us some photos of this solderless PU wire repair!
T.C.

[dale_1]

ok ok ok

So, I finally went back and read the first post again, knowing what I do about you so far.... I am sorry and didn't mean to misunderstand what you were saying....

But, I got ya now....... I used to have the same issue when I was riding horses... the problem was I never relaxed. So, that being said...... There are times now when I don't relax and find myself leaning too far forward for long periods of time too. It does put alot of pressure on the bars at that posture. I have really long arms so, I don't use set-backs, but John on this site does...... He might be better suited to steer (pun accidentally) you in a fine direction.

Speaking of being built weird........

I am 6' 0" and........ if the bike is on the center stand... I can stand flat footed.

Translate that to long and lanky just not basketball star material!

[SFerinTEXAS]

Some replies

Pretty obvious NOT much at email proficientcy. I am one of those people old enough to have resisted modern computer skills as much as possible but have enjoyed jobs where internet surfing was allowed during slow times so plenty of time to appreciate all the things to be found out there. Matter of fact thats how I lucked into my currrnt SF. A Mechanic at the KW dealer where I was working saw me oogling XS11.COM and said his cousin had " ONE OF THOSE " buried in his garage , been there for at least ten years . You know the rest of that story. ANYWAY. Most of my riding is local and close so I"m sure if I did somy serious distance riding alot of my opinions about my bars and body position would modify as a matter of course. Do most things solo and dont have a good xs recivery strategy in the event of need. TO T.C. ..... When I accomplish photo insertion I promise to direct that to you. Guess that should be an all new thread. I did look at my bar angle and when I put them on after my fork seal repair last time( didnt change seals, I swaped the lower tubes with some from an old set that still was holding air after about ten idle years) I sat on the seat and pulled the bars back till my rist met the grips with no angular deflection. when T turn full left or right they almost touch the tank . This is only a factor when moving it around at a walk speed. Looking little long winded here. Sorry ,,, I do seem to go on and on. ANYWAY,,,,,,,,,,,,,,All I ment was I just seemed to feel that I was unknowingly using unneccesary weight force on the bars when a firm hold was all required, not a white knucle grip, (there are times for that but not all the time). Now when i countersteer I usually use the palm of ny hand to apply a little pressure and focus on my my body balance. Anyone who ever flew an airplane understands the turn and ball indicater and to them its analgalous to keeping the ball centered. Maybe I'm just enjoying trying to time the turn with the balance instead of what seemed a slight balance catchup game and not using the bars to carry half my fat ass. Changing topics... as long as there is any of the original p/u coil wire still in there I dont feel comfortable going too far away except with others along. I lnow what I have to do and whos fault why it aint done.ON MY LIST There's basically two kinds of XS owners,,, those that have addressed the P/U wires and those that will. SHUT MYSELF UP

[Jerry]

weight on bars

Don't have statistics to back this up, but IMHO if you are leaning on your bars its time to change bars.

My observation is that if the bars are to low or to wide the tendency is to lean over them.

One of the things I like about the stock XJ bars is that they are somewhat adjustable for width and height. I have them up one spline and narrower than 1 spline from stock position, and riding comfort / position is much improved. (I'm 6' 1" with a 32 inch inseam.) Far less tension/pressure on my arms and shoulders, making longer rides a lot more comfortable.

Also went to a custom seat that has more of a saddle design, has improved the support on the lower back and makes for much more comfortable ride. My opinion is that the stock XJ seat was designed a lot more for visual appeal and less about comfort.

Between the two mods, handlebar adjustments and better seat, the comfort level of the XJ went up quite a lot! No more lower back pain or aching shoulders after a few hundred miles on the road.

Last thing I did was fit mini-floorboards, dropped the foot height about 1 - 1.5 inches, giving me a better angle on the knees. Loses some cornering clearance, though. However, for long-haul interstate travel, which constitutes 90% of my miles, if not time, the trade-off is worth it in a better seating position.

Point is that your best comfort is going to be the result of several changes, bars being the major one but not only thing you should try if you plan to do any long trips on an XS or XJ.

PS. I also use a throttle lock to give right hand a break on long trips. Probably spend 80% of my riding mileage with only 1 hand, left or right, on the bars.

[malber]

Whenever you change riding position you're also changing the muscles you use to balance. I a bit of soreness should be expected until your body gets used to it. I was incredibly sore for the first two weeks after I started riding. I think with these bikes the upright position is best, the way our footpegs are positioned. I've recently realized the importance of counterbalancing at low speed and how that helps cornering. Now I understand what they were trying to teach in the MSF class; it's just difficult to see on the puny bikes they use. I think this would be difficult to do leaning forward like on a sport bike.

About countersteering: yes I'm a believer in countersteering. But I'm also learning that there's a lot to how you shift your weight once you're in the lean depending things like speed and curve radius and apex that have a lot to do with successful cornering. I think a lot of this is probably instinctive to tenured riders. Anyone who thinks that riding a motorcycle isn't a workout is dead wrong!