gas strike may 15

[JWSanders]

BP quoted me a utility augmentation system for my house the year before last. $42,000, including installation (they were unwilling to sell a system without being the one to install it). It would have saved me approx. 70% on my electric bill. At that rate, plus the expense of changing out the batteries every decade or so (a very conservative estimate), I calculated it would take 44 years for it to pay for itself. That's even after averaging in the added value to the property. Provided it actually lasted that long....

The battery "room" would have taken up nearly my entire utility room (which is really a small bedroom that I converted). The inverter and power switching system was the size of a refrigerator, and would have to be mounted (outside) as close to the battery room as possible.

I absolutely hate my local power company, almost to the point of absurdity, and I still couldn't justify it. If I had twice the consumption, it starts to be a lot more cost effective though. Maybe ol' Al Gore could stand to get one. He uses 4 times the power I do.

If I were a rich man, I would have a turbine on a tower and solar panels aplenty.

I do believe I would achieve Nirvana if I could go tell the power company to go f$^k itself.

Or even better, demand a check from them for a change!

Maybe one day....

[Wildkat]

Here are some links that touch on the oil companies researching solar energy:
Big Oil Promotes Solar
More on the topic
New technology is expensive... and cumbersome... think back to the computers of the 70s... huge machines that took up entire rooms... that barely did what a laptop can do these days...
With the rate of technological advancement and proper funding (yeah... I know)... I don't doubt that there will be ways found to make alternative forms of energy more practical and affordable...
So it may be hundreds or thousands of years before we are faced with the problem of no more oil... but it will more than likely happen... So what then? Hopefully technology and common sense (I can dream) will prevail before that happens...

Hey Cody... I have a question... when the oil and natural gas are taken from the ground... does it cause an instability? To clarify a bit... something was there... and now it's not... leaving a void... I guess I have visions of the world caving in on itself... Okay.. yes... naive probably... but that's why I ask the question...

As far as all the rest, I see bitching about oil companies about the same as I see bitching about the government. If no one does anything, then nothing will change. Bitching is a waste of energy without action.

But it makes me feel better

[MAXIMAN]

JW

I never said it viable...just said they rsearched it. Years ago when I worked ofr ARCO Oil and Gas they pumped a couple hundred million into a solar research facility in Arizona. This thing was HUGE! It had a series of photovoltaic cells in the desert that covered about 1200 acres (2 sqaure miles). Are you sitting down....take a deep breath.....

.................................................. .......... It generatedenough electricity for a town of 1000 people! Seriously....the cells took up more land surfce than the town did! Of course that was 30 years ago. Hopefully things have improved but I doubt it. A good friend of mine is a General Contractor. He has installed several 40-50,000 dollar wind/solar power sstems on new houses and tells me they are all a pain in the backside. They can't deliver hot water at a resonable rate for a modern family of 4 - 6 people. And when they fail the repair cost almost exceeds replacement.

Kat

In general no. Oil and gas are not produced from "caverns" the resevoirs we deal with are indeed porous and permeable but the rock is more like a sponge than a cave. If you've ever looked closely at sandstone for instances you'll notice interstitial pore spaces These voids are what hold the oil and gas. So when liquids are extracted the rock matrix is left intact and no structural compromise of the underlying subsurface is created.

I can tell you on rare occassion there have been instances were shallow fields have caused something similar to what you speak of. But I can't recall the specifics. Generally speaking though...no.

[HobbyMan]

Why do they have the big water ponds by the rigs drilling for natural gas? Is that for lubrication or do they pump it down to displace the gas?

[MAXIMAN]

Ok...here we go...

Welcome to Drilling Techniques 101.

Andrew - it for the drilling mud. Mud is used to cool the bit and remove cuttings form the well bore as it's being drilled. What you are seeing is actually the reserve pit. All XS water, mud and drill cuttings go into that pit from the working pits.

Are there any more questions...Ah yes you on the back row...

[prometheus578]

"Drilling Techniques 101"

"Uhmmm, Mr. Maximan. I must be in the wrong classroom... can you tell me where the Dentistry lecture on drilling is being given?"

[MAXIMAN]

That's DOCTOR Maximan to you!

[HobbyMan]

will this be on the final exam?

[MAXIMAN]

The final will actually be a pop quiz. But isn't that just like Big Oil...dirty no good fer nothing low down snipin' tricksters!

[HobbyMan]

great, I love pop quizzes. Well now that we have exhausted this topic, should we debate politics

[JWSanders]

Oh, they've improved solar cell technology radically in 30 years. More so in the last 10, though.

You can get a fully independent home system for a relatively reasonable amount. Well, reasonable if you have the money at least, at around $125,000. It will fit on the roof a moderately large house (or a small portion of a yard), and will let you pull around 800 to 1000kW a month or so. Not a whole lot, but in line with my usage per month.

The batteries are the biggest determining factor, and you have to treat them gingerly or they will die faster. There's a lot of ancillary costs, too. It's definitely not ready for the masses yet.

Two acres of that would generate a LOT of power though!

Believe me, even at the price I was given I still considered it for a while. I really do hate the power company. People talk about big oil...what about big power?

I woke up to no power yesterday morning, but no bad weather in sight. When the power came back on (no telling how long it had been off), my refrigerator did not make the journey back to the living. I didn't know. Went to work same as usual. Came home to $125 worth of inedible meat in my freezer and a fridge full of death. And its all their fault!!!!

I really do have ambitions to put up a wind generator at some point though. There are a lot of open source-type designs that are really making great strides in capacity. It may not power the world, but it would be enough to keep me mostly free of that bill every month.

Everyone I've ever known that had the solar water heaters said they were mostly useless. Was a fad in a lot of neighborhoods in the late 80's and early 90's.

[fredintoon]

How can I burn less gas? The Buick has to go to work 5 days a week, there ain't a bus route and there's nobody to car-pool with. If I had the wealth to pony up $17,000 for a Smart Car that'd do 60mpg to replace a 14-year old V6 that's lucky to see 20mpg I doubt I'd give the price of gas a second thought in the first place.
Fred Hill, S'toon.

[mro]

Everyone I've ever known that had the solar water heaters said they were mostly useless. Was a fad in a lot of neighborhoods in the late 80's and early 90's.

I've been to a few places where it is normal to have dirt floors in the house and have limited to NO electricity. The Amish live way better.
Did notice that it was common for these houses to use black plastic 55 gallon drums mounted outside to "pre-warm" there water and as a fall back when the water stopped flowing to the houses.

There's still a lota people who live (not well) with out oil/gas/electricity. Think they would very much like to have our problems


mro

[HobbyMan]

I have several car alternators that I plan to rewind for a direct drive windmill. THere is a lot of info on it online. It woun't run a lot but if I had a 12v system in my house, that would do just fine, or I could live in the RV

[fredintoon]

Storage

That's the problem. On a small scale, Hobbyman's windmill farm can use the big batteries out of electric forklifts or similar.
On a big scale, like a (say) 40 MegaWatt wind farm, there's power and to spare in anything better than a breeze but eff all in a calm and no way to store it. OK, there's pumped storage but mountains with lakes at the top are kinda rare. Until someone dreams up a good large scale electricity storage system windmills and photovoltaic panels can only be token players to coal, oil and gas burners. Yes, nuclear/electrolysis/hydrogen is the way to go but nobody has the will to feed big fossil and the greenfreaks to the whales and go for it.
Fred Hill, S'toon.