gas strike may 15

[MAXIMAN]

Originally posted by HobbyMan
It can be done and we have the technology to do it. We don't however have the money to do it.

You just made my point. If it is not economically feasible it's not comptetiive and therefore "can't be done".

But I am still not convinced batttery technology is there. There is a world of difference between a model airplane flying on a batterry and a 737 load with a couple hundred passenger flying on a battery.

When the technology matures it will come to fruition. It's simply not there yet.

[MAXIMAN]

Originally posted by HobbyMan
oil companies want us to use oil. They want us to use it because they want to make money.

ANd what's you point? Nike want's you to buy shoes because they make money. Does that force you to buy there shoes? If the electric motor is such a great deal...be my guest...go develop one. I can tell you this ...if it were a great deal someone would have already done it. The fact is it is not a "great deal" yet. It maybe in the future but it simply is not there yet or you'd see it being used widely.

I drew a parralel to another issue while pondering the subject today. Have you seen the movie Thank you For smoking? It accuratly describes the corperate perspective on wheather or not people should smoke. Same goes for oil. We are addicted to it and they know that. We need oil for our lifestyle and they take advantage of that.

That is the most ludicrous thing I have ever heard in my life! Saying we are addicted to oil is like saying were are addicted to WATER!!!!

Oil is energy plain and simple. We need it for our way of life. If it's not oil we're are "ADDICTED" to it will be some other form of energy. Is being addicted to FOOD bad? Becuase energy is the "food" of the world economy.

As you said yourself people will pay for it. Are addictions good? people will argue about it. THer is a solution to our addiction to oil. This solution is expensive but it is here now. Not just a theory or something that sounds good. There are fullly electric cars available to the public market. Anybody with $100k who doesn't mind waiting a year can get one of those cars made by Tesla motor corp. If you wanted to power your house with solar and wind energy, you could charge the car without using any oil.

Number 1 - Prove it. I said it once and will say it again. When electric cars become feasible you will see them in mass. When is the last time an electric car passed youu on the road?

Number two - So you get everyone to drive electric cars. you are still burning coal and natural gas to generate the electricity to power these vehicle. YOU are clueless to the facts of physics Andrew. Wind and Solar power can not fuel the energy needs of this nation using current technology. If it could it would already be done. The fact is electromagnetic techology is not to the point we can fuel the nations fleet. It may get there someday but it is not there now...not even close. Again....again...AGAIN...If it were there it would be happening...no matter what the "BIG BAD WOLF" oil companies wanted.

By the way...the movie you cited is a farce. I saw it. I used to smoke heavily. I decided one day to quit and I did just that. Phillip Morris had no mystical power over me. I simply said "NO MORE" and I stopped. It is my choice and burning XSive amounts of gasoline is your choice as well.

[MAXIMAN]

Re: fuel-cell tech

Originally posted by mro
There are a few hydrogen powered vehicles out there and they work. A few major problems still exist tho. Probably first is that the fuel tank has to be substantially larger than a regular gas tank and just about any idiot could very easily turn it into a very powerful bomb for just a couple of bucks.

Other is to make the fuel. Nuclear power plants would be the most environmentally friendly and cheapest way to produce the electricity need to make the hydrogen.

Government and surprisingly the press has been very low key about the restarting of one nuclear plant this year, and there has been head way to reduce the red tape and permit process for the building of new nuclear plants. Still, will be many years before we actually get a new plant in the USA.


mro

My point again. Nuke energy is the ticket. But the enironMENTALS own the governement regarding this issue and it WILL not happen in the near future.

[MAXIMAN]

KAT

I think another issue needs be addressed. People do not liek to "regress". They want to "progress".

As it stands any of the alternative fuels like fuel cells are considered regression because they don't deliver the quality of transportation the internal combustion engine does.

Fuel cells may be able to haul you and a brief case to work. But they won't pull your 35 foot 5th wheel camper to the Colorado Rockies.

Fuel cells can't launch a 737 and neither can batteries for that matter. Someday they might but right now it isn't technically feasible.

[MAXIMAN]

One more thing I want you all to think about.

Just because we in the USA are "spoiled and fat" doesn't mean everyone else is.

Overseas they are paying $6 to $7 per gallon...yes most is tax but the fact remains they are still paying $7 per gallon in Stockholm for gasoline. And they aredoing it with a much weaker economy than our.

Here's my point. If there were a viable alternative fuel readily developed and available ...the Swedes...or the Brits or the Frogs would have already gone to it because they are not utterly consumed with SUV's and luxury.

If there was some "silver bulet" to kill the "BIG BAD WOLF" (read Big Oil...roflmao) some one would have already done it. To say otherwise flies in the face of the ingenuity of people in other parts of the world that are paying more than TWICE what we do for gasoline.

[MAXIMAN]

WOW...looks like I've hijacked another thread...

But I'm bored this morning. I'm stuck at home babysitting grandkidz!

So back to the original question...who will be boycotting gasoline on the 15th?

I won't. I'll be driving 80 mph in my massive gas guzzling SUV full of kids and grandkids headed toward a sunny beach in Florida.



Gee if I had only known about the boycott I would've just cancelled my vacation!




N O T ! ! !

[prometheus578]

I think govt. and big oil is in cohoots with each other.

They have been since the Eisenhower administration. I know we have the ability for alternative fuel sources. What about the Alien technology from all those UFO's that we've been studying?

(Sorry. I woke early and didn't have much of value to contribute to this discussion, but I felt compelled to write something.)

[mro]

Overseas they are paying $6 to $7 per gallon...

Can not compare USA to yurope....
Different life styles and they live much closer together.
They don't have 40 to 70 mile commutes to work (neither do I but I know a lota people that do)

And they are doing it with a much weaker economy than ours.

The mind set over there that allows the government to tax fuel that way is mostly to blame for the way there economy is.

Most of the "nations" over there, you can drive from one border to the other in just a few hours and some are so small you could fit several in CA CA land and have room left over.

The price of just about anything in the US allways rises to a point where people start to not buy it or cut back.


mro

[MAXIMAN]

RO

That's all true but it still doesn't change this fact: they are paying $7 per gallon in Stockholm!!!

It doesn't matter why they are doing it...THEY ARE DOING IT.

As far as the commute of 70 miles...people choose to commute that distance. No one forces them to do it. Please don't gimme this line they can't find anywhere to live closer.

I know...been there done that. When confronted with the same situation ... I QUIT!!! I got another job where I did not have to commute 40 miles. If some is FORCED to drive 70 miles...one way ...to get to their job...maybe they have the wrong job.

The truth of the matter is all of the people I know that commute those distances (and I know many) do it for the quality of life...not becuase they HAVE to. I have at least a dozen friends that commute from Stillwater to Tulsa or OKC because they don't want to live in the city. They like the laid back upscale atmosphere of Stillwater but the job in the city so they choose to live here and work there.

But boy when the price of gas goes up do they ever get bent. I guess they think some one "OWES" them cheap gasoline. And herin lies another area where huge volumes of gas are being burned. I don't have a problem with it...but people have to understand ..ya gotta pay to play.

Whatever...

[mro]

I guess they think some one "OWES" them cheap gasoline.

Their probably originally from California
Please keep them



mro

[nubee]

MAXIMAN,

I think it will take oil ( truck in materials) to build nukes and mine uranium. We had better start now while we still have the oil.

Let China and India base their economy on oil and gas while we learn to use something else (we have lots of coal). When the world runs out we will be sitting pretty!

WE WILL NEVER DO IT !! We're too short sighted.

How about keeping the grandkids occupied shoveling coal into the firebox of the SUV headed for Florida? No more fat Grandkids

[MAXIMAN]

Re: I guess they think some one "OWES" them cheap gasoline.

Originally posted by mro
Their probably originally from California
Please keep them



mro

Well I dunno if they are "native Cals" but you are right. They certainly moving in here from California by the boat load. Whazzup wid dat?

[MAXIMAN]

nubee

While it is true that conventional theory says we are running out of oil ( I know it all too well being a registered professional Geologist)...it is also true that world reserves continue to swell. A strange paradox indeed.

Most experts will tell you that world demand will exceed supply in the next decade. But these are the same experts that told us in the 70's we'd be out of oil in 50 years. Today...some 30 years later they are saying we'll be out of oil in 50 years! And that's considering the fact that consumption is WAY up over what it was in the 70's.

The reason? Technology. technical advances have made it so we can now produce oil and gas from places we never dreamed before...like from 2000 feet of water in the Gulf of Mexico or harsh Arctic environs. We've also advanced in the fields of secondary, tertiary and even quarternary recovery methods which has utlimately increased recoverable reserves we never dreamed we'd be able to produce. And thirdly we are finding new reserves in horizons before considered non-commercial.

For instance 50 years ago no one really considered coal bed methane a commercial source of natural gas. However today it is a HUGE source of natural gas production due to a shift in "geo-logic" and technology. These trends will continue into the future and more conventional reserves will be realized from it.

One day we may well run out. But far be it from me to predict the time frame.

[JWSanders]

I hadn't realized this post had become such a debate.

There are many people running electric vehicles right now, and several rather large internet communities built around it.

They measure battery life in 20-30k miles. And thats with a moderate charging cycle. If you can't get at least 30k miles out of a set of batteries the cost actually becomes more than the cost of gasoline over the same mileage. I had actually considered building an electric vehicle at one time, but after seeing what people were getting out of them it seemed useless. I think the best range I ever saw was 80 miles, and they were using twice the normal amount of batteries in the lightest stripped-down frame they could make. The car was basically nothing but batteries and a frame.

Unless battery technology increases drastically, it's moot to me.

Didn't someone from here made an electric bike? I need to search for that again.

BTW, I just read a fairly informative article about TVA and the 2 reactors that are near completion. One is in northern AL and is scheduled to open in late 2008 or early 2009. The orther is the Watts Bar #2 reactor (near Knoxville, TN - I go by there often), which will be complete and running by 2012. There is already one running reactor at Watts Bar. They want to finally complete the half-dozen or so reactors that lay half-finished all over TN, as well. They have have the normal amount of enviornmental whining about it, but it's far less right now than it ever has been. Reactor technology has improved 10-fold in the last 10 years, allowing efficiencies in the 85-90% range. Not only that, but they create half the waste products they used to. There are new models for reactors now that make mostly plutonium as a waste product, as well. Not enviornmentally friendly, but at least it has a use.

It's getting harder to justify the "pro-enviornment" argument against nuclear power. It's 10 times cleaner than anything else. Ask Japan how'd they'd be doing without it....

As far as all the rest, I see bitching about oil companies about the same as I see bitching about the government. If no one does anything, then nothing will change. Bitching is a waste of energy without action.

Action beyond a ridiculous "boycott day" that noone participates in, that is. Seriously, at least 3 times a year, mostly during the summer (when the prices go up) that same BS starts every year. I remember seeing them as far back as 1999.

As I said before...It's a load.

It would take several million people not travelling all summer to make any real dent in the flow of gasoline. Ain't gonna happen.

[MAXIMAN]

Big oil promotes solar

I wonder...how many of you know that some of the biggest investors in solar and wind technology are "BIG OIL" companies.

They always have been. This is because they are energy companies...not "oil" companies per se. They really are not concerned with what type energy they produce as long as it makes money. If it doesn't make money then why produce it?

Just FYI, BP is one of the largest investors in the research and development of solar technology. BP has committed to investing about 1 billion (that's with a B) per year for the next ten years into solar research.

So the next time someone tells you that "big oil" is trying to squash alternative energies please do a little research for your self. I think you'll be surprised at what you find.