gas strike may 15

[MAXIMAN]

It's starting to stink in here......Maximan has just left the building...

[HobbyMan]

Like Kat said, I don't care if car prices go up. Frankly, I wish car prices doubled. Then there would be less of them on the road. Do you know how many people think that they need to get a new car every few years because its "old"? The exception is those who need new cars for real because they live in areas where cars rust frequently. It is the choice of the consumer whether or not to replace his old car with a new one. However, for many people it is not their choice buy gasoline or not. In today's suburban society without REAL mass transportation, it is inevitable. There are not enough horses in the US to fill the needs of the country. I am sure that if cars just stopped existing, we would find a way to transport goods from point a to b but the fact is, it is not that way right now. Put yourself in a world without oil. How is the food going to get to the grocery store? How are the power plants going to produce electricity? With no electricity, how are you going to get sanitary water? The simple fact is, with our current transportation and energy structure, we can't survive without cheap oil. I do agree with you Maximan on this one. I am aware of the many risks involved in getting oil. People should be well compensated for their risks. Along that line, lets think of these scenarios.
I was watching the discovery Chanel at a friends house the other day. They had a special on oil rigs in the gulf. They were doing costly cross drilling experiments. The engineers and planners of this particular drill were under a significant amount of risk. They could either suffer human casualty of a few members of their crew or they could be forced to leave because of a time deadline costing millions of dollars. Now lets take a look at my Dad's line of work. He is an airline pilot on the Boeing 777 which has a maximum capacity of 500+ human lives. If he screws up, everyone could die on that airplane and the company would loose a very expensive aircraft. Not to mention the law suits from survivor's families. How much do you value your life? Don't you think that is more risk than the oil drilling engineers? Isn't it strange that these petroleum engineers made about the same amount as my Dad in one year of drilling vs. one year of flying plane loads of people around the world? I am sure John can tell you whats going on with the airline these days. Not to mention that American airlines is one of the last remaining major airlines that has not gone into bankruptcy. When that happens, retirements are for the most part gone and salaries are cut. Do you want pissed of airline pilots flying you around while you think you got the cheapest deal on airline fares? It would not be good if this same thing happened to oil companies but I think that it is a little out of control.

[HobbyMan]

Did someone fart? I don't want free gas. I want to pay for it just like everyone else also, but I would like a fair deal. ( no not that gas) I don't take getting stiffed lightllty. If I had no doubs that the current price of gasoline was indeed a fair price, I wouldn't have a problem. It just seems that everything around us says that we consumers are getting a raw deal. I know news and other media is extreemly biased. How often do I listen to the news and believe what they say, not very often.

[MAXIMAN]

Ok Andrew...what's the solution...government?

Why is it that SW airlines makes a profit and no other airline can?

And lastly...if you don't like the price of gas quit buying it. Please don't give me this load that you can not. YOU CAN.

How do I know? We did it in the late 70's and early 80's...long before you were a twinkle in your daddy's eye. And so did everyone else during that time. No we did not stop using completely but we cut way back.

People today are not cutting back....why? It's NOT HIGH ENOUGH YET. When it gets high enough people will stop burning it and the price will fall. JUST LIKE THEY DID in the early 80's.

Cyclic prices of gasoliine are as old as the commodity itself. These wide price swings are nothing new. and they are dictated by your demand. Not by some "fat cat" in an oil company office.

[HobbyMan]

gov't is most definitely not the solution. AMR made a profit also. Because of the high cost, my family has cut WAY down on gasoline usage. We don't go on very many road trips any more. We replaced out gas guzzling vehicles with more economical ones and of course got motorcycles. Personally, I do not even use half of the gas that I did at the beginning of last year. I can only go so far. How could I stop buying gas? I have started bicycling to many places withing 5 miles of my house. I have taken my bicycle to school (5 miles) Again personally, how am I supposed to earn money without gasoline. MY lawn buisness does not run on electricity. People need their lawns cut and someone has to buy gas. If our community was structured differently where we had rocks in stead of grass and school was a short walk away, I might be able to stop getting gas. If I had my way with things, I wouldn't need gasoline. Frankly I don't have the money for a solar powered vehicle.

[HobbyMan]

I hope you can see where my perspective is. I see what you are saying Maximan. So the question remains, when are people going to say "we've had enough" and build our own electric cars. Who wants to build one with me? Better yet, what about an electric motorcycle? Then again we still need tires and various oils for lubrication. Although I would like it, I just don't see the country switching to an efficient mass transportaion system any time in the near future.

[MAXIMAN]

Andrew I understand your frustration. But like I said before...electricty won't solve the problem because 80% of all electricity is generated via hydrocarbons (coal, oil, natural gas). There is simply no way to get around it short of nuclear...and like I said the enviroMENTALS will never let that happen becuase of their unfounded fear of nuclear waste. France has been on Nuke for decades and done quite well with it.

Besides ask anyone who's driven an electric car why they haven't kept it. They can't cut the mustard. They have no power and less range. If you really want to build an electric motor with practical use you will need to develop some sort of super conductor. Current technology (no pun) simply doesn't allow for the most efficeint use of electrical energy. Batteries just can not do what and internal combustion engine can do utilizing state of the art conductors.

In the short term the only way to alleviate the energy pinch is simple. Produce more energy. But everyone in these United States has bought into the "hate oil companies" line and so I doubt they'll come home anytime soon. The business environment here is not conducive for them to explore at home and maximize profits.

The world really needs some bright young fella such as yourself and others to work on the development of some serious alternatives to the almighty gasoline engine. Go for it! In the words of Rob Schnieder "You can dooo eet!"

[nubee]

MAXIMAN,

Why is it that we (USA) have fewer refineries than we had 10 years ago? I understand we must sell much of our Alaskan crude to Japan because our refineries can't process the high sulfur content crude. Am I correct?

[MAXIMAN]

Yes that's true...but there are two main reasons our refining cap is down. There hasn't been a refinery built in the USA since 1974!

One reason is the NIMBYs...the Not In My Back Yard crowd. Refineries are ugly and smell bad and the spoiled brats of the US don't want it in "their back yards".

The biggest reason is an ocean of red tape and environmental regulations. Today it is a nightmare ...and cost prohibitive...to build a refinery in these United States. It is far more simple and profitable to build one in Venezuela, or Mexico, or the Middle East. The people and governments there are far and away more inviting of refineries. They are hungry for the jobs and the income.

Here in the USA we are so fat and spoiled we apparently don't need the money or the jobs (at least that's what some believe)...so we wind up relegating the "smelly" job of refining crude products to others...and thus we end up being at the mercy of thugs like Hugo Chavez for much needed refining capacity since we are "too good" to do it ourselves. Therein lies the bottleneck of refining and yet another reason gasoline prices are so unstable.

But I don't see that changing anytime soon..do you?

[nubee]

MAXIMAN,

Ditto for nukes!

[HobbyMan]

I agree that we need to use nukes. I disagree on the electric car issue
A little out of my price range but,
http://www.teslamotors.com/index.php?js_enabled=1
http://www.nedra.com/
It can be done and we have the technology to do it. We don't however have the money to do it. The lithium battery technology has become far greater than it was a few years ago. Several of the members of my radio controlled airplane club have electric planes that are bigger, faster, and more powerfull than some of our largest gas models(not nitro, GAS!) Thats a big accomplishment. The order of performance vs size used to be glider, electric, nitro, and gas to top them all off. Now it is glider, nitro, electric, and gas. They haven't cought on fully. This is just one field that shows the advancement in electric technology. If we want to keep the ability to have a car, we need nuclear plants along with solar, wind, and hydro producing the electricity for our cars.

[HobbyMan]

I agree that we need to use nukes. I disagree on the electric car issue
A little out of my price range but,
http://www.teslamotors.com/index.php?js_enabled=1
http://www.nedra.com/
It can be done and we have the technology to do it. We don't however have the money to do it. The lithium battery technology has become far greater than it was a few years ago. Several of the members of my radio controlled airplane club have electric planes that are bigger, faster, and more powerfull than some of our largest gas models(not nitro, GAS!) Thats a big accomplishment. The order of performance vs size used to be glider, electric, nitro, and gas to top them all off. Now it is glider, nitro, electric, and gas. They haven't cought on fully. This is just one field that shows the advancement in electric technology. If we want to keep the ability to have a car, we need nuclear plants along with solar, wind, and hydro producing the electricity for our cars.

[HobbyMan]

power flickered on that last post. sorry

oil companies want us to use oil. They want us to use it because they want to make money. I drew a parralel to another issue while pondering the subject today. Have you seen the movie Thank you For smoking? It accuratly describes the corperate perspective on wheather or not people should smoke. Same goes for oil. We are addicted to it and they know that. We need oil for our lifestyle and they take advantage of that. As you said yourself people will pay for it. Are addictions good? people will argue about it. THer is a solution to our addiction to oil. This solution is expensive but it is here now. Not just a theory or something that sounds good. There are fullly electric cars available to the public market. Anybody with $100k who doesn't mind waiting a year can get one of those cars made by Tesla motor corp. If you wanted to power your house with solar and wind energy, you could charge the car without using any oil.

[mro]

fuel-cell tech

There are a few hydrogen powered vehicles out there and they work. A few major problems still exist tho. Probably first is that the fuel tank has to be substantially larger than a regular gas tank and just about any idiot could very easily turn it into a very powerful bomb for just a couple of bucks.

Other is to make the fuel. Nuclear power plants would be the most environmentally friendly and cheapest way to produce the electricity need to make the hydrogen.

Government and surprisingly the press has been very low key about the restarting of one nuclear plant this year, and there has been head way to reduce the red tape and permit process for the building of new nuclear plants. Still, will be many years before we actually get a new plant in the USA.


mro

[Wildkat]

Southwest vs the rest of the airline industry

Originally posted by MAXIMAN
Why is it that SW airlines makes a profit and no other airline can?

This will explain it more succinctly than I can...Oil Hedging

The idea of alternative fuels is a great one... Electric cars would be cool... solar powered even better (IMHO)... The main problem that I see here is that Americans have become comfortable and complacent... Many aren't willing to give up their power symbols... SUVs... Hummers... big trucks... even energy guzzling homes... The technology could be developed to make these more feasible... granted it may not be as efficient as oil... but I'm sure they could come up with something in short order if necessity required it... That whole "necessity is a mother..." thing...

I'm afraid it's going to take a major shift in the order of things and a major wake up call to the nation before anything real happens to change things... Starting out with little steps to save energy and reduce oil consumption would be great... but many aren't willing to make even the smallest effort because it would take them out of their comfort zone...
You're absolutely right... fat and spoiled... A shame really...