making a spectacle of myself

[mason79]

what is an old fart?

then what is a new fart, at least being old they can't smell me, as far as the saying goes.

older= can't see for sh*t, oh i gotta get away from the back side.

my eyes tire and while somewhat astigmatic, i don't need glasses to drive/ride, only when i read, the over 40 sydrome,

i did do the see clearly method of eye excercises, and part way throught the system life got in the way, and i must say when i was dilengent with it , my eyes did get stronger, and better i see that system working, a little

[79XS11F]

go high laser .. I know 3 people who have had it done and all 3 are VERY pleased with the end result. I might also add that glasses or not a full face shield is a must for biking.
Rob

[TopCatGr58]

Now let the Xperts speak!

Believe it or not, we have 2 Certifited Ophthalmic Technicians on the FORUM, LaxDad, and myself with over 25 years of Xperience in both clinical exams, diagnostics, and surgical assisting, cataracts, glaucoma, muscle surgery, eyelid, and Laser Vision Correction(LVC)!

Okay, First to Pat. You say you don't really need to wear your glasses for driving, Xcept at night in unfamiliar areas!?
The vision standards for most DMV's across the country states you need 20/70 or better vision in 1 eye to drive in the daytime, but you need 20/40 or better for night driving, whereas the accepted "perfect/normal" vision is 20/20, although nowadays, folks are obtaining 20/15 vision due to better nutrition allowing for better retinal development during growth years!

The most common refractive error is myopia, where you eyes are a bit too long front to back/or the front lens=cornea is too steeply curved. In both, the light rays are being converged too soon before they strike the retina causing an out of focus blurred image. You might notice that your glasses are thicker on the outside/edge than in the middle, that's because they are concave shaped, DIVERGING the light rays before they enter your eye so that they will then be converged farther back onto the retina and be in focus.

The other problem that occurs with AGING is Presbyopia, latin for old eyes. When trying to see distance objects > 20ft away the light rays are parallel, and require only modest amount of converging to focus on the retina. BUT when looking objects closer, the light rays from that object are actually DIVERGING as they approach the eye, so they need to be CONVERGED more to bring into focus. The inner lens(behind the IRIS=colored part) is the crystaline lens, and when we are young it is very malleable, and can be squished by our inner eye muscles to become thicker, being a CONVEX lens=fatter in the middle, the more it's squished, the fatter it becomes and creates more focusing power for upclose vision.

The cells in the lens continuously grow, but it's a sealed bag, and so with age, it becomes more dense and less elastic, so we can't squish it as much and that's why we loose our near vision. Folks that are already near sighted/myopic have EXTRA converging power in their cornea, and so they can see up close without glasses, but can't see far away. Once you correct the myopia with glasses/CL's, then distance is clear, but IF they are over 40 y/o, then they can no longer generate the squish effect and so loose the ability to see clearly up close THRU the glasses WITHOUT having a different lens power put into the glasses/cls= the bifocal power!

Now for LVC info. There are basically 2 approaches to applying the laser to the cornea to reshape the Xcessive bend to flatten it out to push the light rays back onto the retina. BTW, the cornea is only on average 0.5mm thick=500-600 microns, some even LESS! One technique is LASIK, where they first make a partial depth~1/4 to 1/5(130-150microns) for a FLAP, fold it back, apply laser to the underlying tissue, and then put flap back in place. THIS is the more riskier type, due to chances for complications from the flap process, either just in making it, infection, corneal skins cells that get knocked loose and lodge under it can grow and distort it requiring relifting and scraping, a localized inflammatory reaction called DLK where white blood cells attack the interface/space between the base cornea and the flap secreting enzymes that can MELT the cornea! Also, as we age, our eyes do not lubricate themselves as well, and LASIK can aggravate that condition possibly requiring frequent use of tear drops after surgery!

PRK is the other, it is the OLDER technique but it is the safer version, no flap, just applied to the outer surface of the eye to reshape it. HOWEVER the outermost layer is a thin skin layer which grows back, so we have to painlessly scrape it off first to get to the main corneal tissue, then after the laser treatment, the skin cells have to grow back, so you wear a CL for 5 days 24 hours a day until they have grown back. Years/decade+ ago we didn't have the Xtended sleep in CL's and so folks had to be home ridden with large corneal abrasions after PRK until they healed, was moderately painful, and so that's why LASIK with it's quick healing painless flap was developed. BUT now with the CL's there is essentially no pain, just a mild foreign body scratchy burning sensation but diminishes quickly after the 1st day of surgery, and people can function, use their eyes to see, etc. while the skin cells grow back. PRK has made a big comeback in use due to reduced overall risks, and now with minimal discomfort.

Now the fun part. If you're nearsighted and enjoy just taking your glasses OFF to read, then LVC will change that. You will be able to see clearly at a distance, but you won't be able to read or see up close like you DID without your glasses, it will be like wearing your glasses ALL THE TIME. But with both eyes set for distance, drugstore glasses are very cheap, no prescription required, can walk into any drugstore/walmart and buy off shelf if you loose/break them for $10.00 or so! You can also buy off the shelf sunglasses as well, and do many sports activities without glasses, but you do need to bring them to be able to read maps, restaurant menus, etc.!

One variation is called MONO vision, where you have your dominant eye set for full distance, and the non-dominant eye set for desk/dashboard/laptop level reading vision, so you can see both far away and moderate close without glasses. But it's not perfect! Your TRUE depth perception is somewhat compromised since the brain isn't getting the exact same clear image from both eyes. Some folks can't tolerate or separate the images(MYSELF) and so the reading eye makes distance look blurry, and the distance eye makes reading blurry when both eyes are open!

So..Pat, you have to ask yourself how motivated you are, what do you like to do the most? Be able to read without glasses, but wear for driving/distance and pay lots of $$ for them, or would you like to be able to see almost everything beyond your arms fairly clearly, and be able to read with easy to get cheap OTC reading glasses?! From your description of your vision, IF you have an old pair of glasses, you can take out one lens from most likely the LEFT eye IF you're right handed, and wear them to try the MONO vision to see if your brain will allow you to concentrate your focus on whatever distance/near range you're looking at. IF you can't learn to separate the images, then you'll know you probably couldn't do the MONO and would just have both treated for distance!

I'll continue responses to the other members, Ljay and JOHN in my next reply! T.C.

[TopCatGr58]

Originally posted by Ljay40
Funny this thread should come up as it did
Last week went and got my glasses everything in the far distance is
kinda blurry and everything close up is really good. So i get
glasses for Driving. they ask me you want Bifocals, I say no beacause then I wont be able to see close up and I only need em for driving.So they make them and I drive with for 2 days with these new glasses. Crap there terrible I cant see anything close up,everything far away is crystal clear tho, So I go back hey give me the bifocals but I don't want coke glasses with lines running thru them, well 205 dollars later i orderthese bifocals, with auto darkening and antiglare and scratch proof I have my new glasses Well now my head gets sore trying to look through the bottom of my glasses at things close up as this is where they located the bifocal. Guess where the glasses are
Yup top drawer who cares about whats way in the distance I need to be able to see my dash and speedo

Ljay,
You're not that OLD! Secondly, IF your driving glasses were NOT coke bottles, then your bifocals will not be coke bottles either!

The hidden bifocal=Progressive Add Lens(PAL) is a ramping affect since there is NO LINE, and you get more of the power as you look farther thru the edge of the lens, farther down into the RAMP! They have guidelines on where they put the beggining of the ramp, otherwise it will interfere with your distance vision. With your younger age your doctor may not have prescribed a strong bifocal power, and you get less of the affect with the PAL style lens. It's a common practice to increase the actual PAL power by 0.25=1 standard power increment to make your ramp steeper so that you get more of the reading power sooner with LESS tilting of the head, or less of having to look downward from center to be looking thru the reading power.

Again, with your milder glasses power and mild bifocal power, the line will not be that apparent, and when positioned properly.... usually set at the top edge of your lower eyelid, then it requires very little tilting, or downward gaze to be able to see thru it vs. the distance portion, and IF they set the bifocal=ADD power properly, you will still have a decent range of near focus while looking thru that lens, desk/dash/laptop/newspaper, etc.! But IF it's set too low, that's when you have to do much more tilting to try to look below the line thru the lens.

Go back to your doctor, and first have them provide a TRIAL LENS frame with your distance vision, and then loose lenses that you can hold close to your glasses below your angle of distance vision, and see what range of near vision you have with them, and see if it looks clearer, and whether it seems like you can tolerate the slight distance blurr when looking down thru them, like walking. IF it looks clearer than the PAL's, and doesn't bother you, then have the Doctor write a DOCTOR's CHANGE prescription stating that you can NOT tolerate the PAL's, and that they (optical shop) should change the lenses(FOR FREE) into the line type bifocals so you can use them and won't waste your $$!

Just remember to ask them where they are positioning the bifocal lens, should be at eyelid, or bottom of iris if your lid droops low and exposes your white sclera below your colored part/iris!!

OR... have your doctor check you with your PAL's, and try +0.25 and +0.50 more power in loose lenses held in front of your glasses while looking down thru PALs to see if the near vision seems clearer. IF so, and you WANT TO KEEP the PAL style, then again, the doctor can write a Doctor's Change, increasing the overall power of your PAL section so your ramp will be steeper so you can get to and use your reading power sooner without having to tilt or look down so far!

BUT, act NOW, most optical shops allow only 2-3 months for making any drastic changes that they will perform FOR FREE!!! After that, you've had them long enough to learn/know whether you're happy with them, and so will LOOSE your benefit after that time period!!!
T.C.

[HobbyMan]

Wow, is anyone else surprised? I had no idea that you were an Ophthalmic Technician . Its nice to have experts from every field.

[TopCatGr58]

John,

I'm surprised that your Doctor didn't suggest the Special Occupational bifocals that many mechanics, pilots, etc. that do arm's length work above their heads have made. The optical shop can put a separate Bifocal which is really closer to a TRIFOCAL....about half the bifocal power in a lens at the top of the glasses to allow near vision while looking up!?!?

As we age further, the crystal lens bends LESS, and so we need stronger power to focus small objects held close, like newspaper, phone book, bible, other fine print! The stronger the lens, the shorter the range of focus so the object has to be held closer to bring it into focus along with making it appear bigger since it's closer to your eye! But, we can loose the MIDRANGE computer, dash,laptop, bulletin board, armslength range of focus! That's where the TRIFOCAL comes in. It's HALF the bifocal power so it allows you to focus on those more distant near tasks like hobby work, etc. without having to get so close! Very small objects will not be as clear or big, but at arm's length they don't need to be!

But you still have the full bifocal power to see these things IF you hold them closer and use that lens. The trifocal LINE sits a bit higher usually just below the bottom of the PUPIL, so that you barely have to cut your gaze down below straight ahead to see thru it, helpful for computers and other arm's length tasks, and then the bifocal sits below this line at it's normal position at the edge of the eyelid, so when reading you just gaze a little more downward to see thru this lens!

Growing old is HELL! Nothing is as good as our eyes when we are younger, it's a compromise no matter which way you go, just have to learn to adapt to it!

Okay, I'm done! The crowd roars yeah!!! However, if you or anyone else has any other specific personal questions about their eyes, vision correction techniques, surgery, etc., feel free to PM me!!
T.C.

[TopCatGr58]

Originally posted by HobbyMan
Wow, is anyone else surprised? I had no idea that you were an Ophthalmic Technician . Its nice to have experts from every field.

I have to say it before PROM does! Are you ready!?

Yeah, there's more to me than meets the EYE!
T.C.

[mason79]

damn tc, the conversations you get here, is lacking elsewhere, my eye surgeon did my follicular restoration recently, i guess this is to augment his income.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Mason,

Well, once a doctor gets his MD, and is board certified, he/she is allowed to perform essentially any medical procedure he/she wants to. Just depending on how much he/she wants to risk his malpractice insurance to do procedures that he may have only recieved minimal training and experience in!

Hope you have a good looking result, wouldn't want you to get involved in a squabble about it, seems like you'd just be ....
.
.
.
.
.
"Splitting Hairs'

Sorry, feeling punny tonight!

Yeah, I like to talk, and type as you can see. I take my position at work very seriously in that I am a big part of the "Informed Consent" process a patient needs to go thru before deciding on ANY surgical procedure. Patient education is a big part of my job!
T.C.

[mason79]

Well Top khat, while hair today, I was afraid it’ll be gone tommarrow, so I researched the procedure ad nauseum, the chain operations made me feel too much like a number, the picking’s was sparse, these things aren’t cheap, but , I never like to get scalped, I’m always looking not toupee too much for the deal.

This guy didn’t have the overhead, as a result, his staff of technicksions gave a good blow dry job and he actually shaved off a lot from what it woulda been.

The pills, needles, and scalpels buzzed by all day, and they downplayed the post surgical trauma, I was told it would all fall out, but mine started to grow right away, it’s only been around 3 weeks, and it’s starting to gel and I’m feeling at piece and confident I’ll be reaching for my aqua net.

my first try, you see this place does challenge the mind.

[Pat Kelly]

As it is now, without my glasses on, my right eye focuses on objects up close. My left eye sees things far away.
At one time (quite a few years back) I inquired about contacts and I was told I would only need one.
I do wear a full-face helmet. Theface shield us cracked open 99% of the time. It's always too hot or too cold (fogs up). The 1/2 inch it stays open is just fine.
I have a feeling I'm going to go with glasses. I (again) may see if they have a trial offer on contacts just to try them.
Appt. is in 2 hours.

[Ljay40]

Hey T.C.

Thanks for the advice Your a wealth of great information Ever thought of running For PRESIDENT ! I will go back to eye doctor,Its the lady up front that does all the sizing and stuff tho
hopefully I can get passed her to see the doctor.
I have been I have almost 400 dollars sunk into these glasses when ya include the frames I try to wear them at work but as I alluded to earlier I can't seem to focus up on my paper work for my hourly checks, So im lifting my head and almost looking out through the bootm of my frames I think you hit nail on head they
positioned the PALS wrong or they not strong enuff!
Once again THANKS!

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Ljay,

Well, at our office, "we" techs...guys and girls do most of the measurements for the glasses for the patients, then the doctor reviews the info and can make changes if he/she deems it, but that's rarely done! Mistakes are made, either by the optical shop that made the glasses, or just thru the measuring process perhaps not communicating as well as should to determine what the patient wants vs. needs to solve their visual requirements. So... when I said go back to see the doctor, that was really a euphamism, see whoever will see you to get the measurements correct, then it's just a matter of the doctor 'signing' the NEW change request prescription!

Pat, you have what we call natural monovision, 1 distance eye, 1 near eye. Some folks pay good $$ to have their eyes made that way on purpose. If you correct your near eye for distance with a CL, then it may not see as well for up close. Randy spoke of having bifocal CL's, they do make them, but are not that successful, and don't always work for everyone, so that's why we offer the MONOVISION option. Glasses will provide you with both the distance and near vision you may want, but like you said, if you forget them, loose them, etc., you're not stranded....you can still drive to get home.
T.C.

[DeanR]

I was gonna jump in here yesterday, but held off because I knew TC would be much more verbose, er, complete than I. And he's the laser guy anyway!

Nice job TC!

[Pat Kelly]

I'm getting new glasses.
Dr said it I had to have bad eyes mine are eyedeal . Right eye is 20/80 and sees upclose, left eye is 20/40 and see far away.
New glasses have thinner (horizontal) lenses so I can look underneath them almost like bifocals.

Thanks for all the info!!!