welding

[HobbyMan]

I just started welding today. I am taking a welding class, but my instructor seems to think that watching welding videos is better than the actual thing. I have a lincoln electric 240v AC welder. I am limited when working because I only have 110v wired out in the garage. I have been using an ONAN 6kW generator which has a limited capability. It should handle it but when I select 90A it can only run it a little because the breakers keep tripping. The generator can handle it because it has a big overload capacity. Anyway, Is it normal to use a LOT of rod? I have been using 6013 rod to weld 1/16 steel. I know that it is a little too big and the heat is way to high. I have managed to get some ok results when welding though. My problem is that my welds keep craking and I am using a LOT of rod. 1 out of 3 will not crack. My rods are a few years old. Is that my problem? Sometimes the filler material just starts cracking off. I am new at this and my teacher at school isn't helping at all. Now that I am welding at home, I am completely on my own. Any welders out there? Also, I want to get a good MIG welder. What am I looking to pay for a basic unit with a spool gun to go with it. I would like to do aluminum welding so I would use the spool gun a lot. Any advice on this would be apreciated to.

[planedick]

Welding...

Well, 6013 means that it is an all position rod, 60,000 lbs tensile strength and from personal experience, a hard rod to learn on. If you are trying to get 90 Amps from a 110 volt input, you are really trying to use about 60 amps input!!!! You could easily get 220 volts in the garage and 30 amps would be plenty. There are lots of 110 volt mig welders out there too, so if you want to weld AL too just get one with the gas capabilities. Most of these will weld up to 1/4" plate, but to do" that you have to really know what you're doing. 1/16" to 1/8" is ideal for these units and they're not all that expensive. Try Harbor Freight.

When welding you only have to have enough amps to form a puddle of molten metal. Using 6013 one would move the rod in a U shaped pattern with the puddle at the bottom of the U slowly filling on the sides and the bottom and slowly moving toward the top of the U. One of the hardest things is to distinquish between molten steel and the slag formed by the shield. You will see two different colors and if you look closely you can see the seperation of the two.

You didn't mention the dia of the rod you were using. Not more than 1/8" for 1/16" thick steel. I have lots of experience welding, but it's hard to teach from a distance.

Basically, you are melting the rod and using it to fill the space between the parts you are welding together. So the amount of rod depends on the gap you're trying to fill. The coating on the rod is a compound that, when it burns, forms a atmospheric shield around the puddle for better results. You have to be careful to have a big enough a puddle to penetrate deep into the parent metal or the weld is not strong. "Good penetration is a must."

[HobbyMan]

well since I am using a 240v arc right now, It isnt drawing 90A. MY dad is going to build a shed out back with 240v 60A. Untill then I have to stick with the ONAN or unplug the laundry equip. I might do that tomorrow so that it isnt soo loud. I just went out and bought some 1/8 and 3/32 6011. I got a range of others for future use. I picked up some 6013 and 7018 also. I may not use it right now but it was cheap and I want to play around with diff rods. I have to find more scrap steel to play with. Is there a place to get some for free? I will try tomorrow using your advice. So I am supposed to build up a large puddle?

[Wildkat]

Steel and stuff

Hey Andrew, there's a scrap metal place on Jacksboro Hwy just north of Ft Worth. Can't recall the name (yeah, I know... big help) but they have a LOT of decent scrap steel. I got the steel for my Infinity project there and as I recall, it was relatively inexpensive. John might remember the name and I'll try to remember to ask him.

and Hey! Congratulations on your nomination! That is VERY cool!


Ummmm... you might want to empty your mailbox... Tried to send this there but you're full up...
(You SO popular! )

[HobbyMan]

Try it now. Thanks very much, I didn't think I was actually got the nomination. Now I have to finish the actual aplication to the academy. If I find out where the place is question is, I will get the trailer and the Suburban to haul it. And so the adventure begins.

[LoserShoes]

You're probably holding the rod too far away, when you strike your arc and get it started the rod should be about 1/8 inch from the work.

It would be easier if you got some reasonably thick plate, 1/4 " or better and just run beads across it. Do you stick the wire alot when you try to start an arc? Start the arc like you are lighting a match, right now you don't really care where you place the bead, just learn to reun a good one.

Go to a welding store and look at all the free pamphlets from the welding suppliers, and sometimes the counter help are real welders and will be willing to help someone get started.

Steve

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Andrew,

Good luck with your stick welding learning process. I'm an older fart, and knew that stick welding would be rather difficult to learn, and so that's why I got the wire feeder from Lincoln instead. I was able to learn from the videos, and a few pieces of practice, and then got busy. Wire feeding is much easier to maintan your arc distance since the wire keeps coming out of the handle, whereas with the stick you are constantly having to adjust your position of the ever shortening rod to keep the proper distance while you're also trying to move along the seam!

I'm sure the folks that use sticks can tell you there are specific applications where the stick welding is either better or preferred, but for ease of use, the wire feeder is the way to go!

One thing I learned with welding aluminum was that it requires a different shielding gas(pure argon) vs. the co2/argon blend. It also helps to use a stiffer series of aluminum wire so that it won't bind in the feeder mechanism IF it's too soft. The two series of aluminum wire is IIRC 4000 adn 5000, can't currently remember which is the stiffer, but it is more difficult to find.

IF you haven't seen my thread about my aluminum diamond plate saddle bags, check it out. I was also able to weld my homebuilt trailer that has driven many thousands of miles without incident!
Good luck, learn well!
T.C.

[HobbyMan]

Thanks everyone. I can start the arc really well. I can strike it like a match or on my last attemps I could just lower it enouch to where it started on its own. It sticks a coupla times though. I have noticed that when it is too far away, it splatters everywhere and eventually goes out. I have tried holding it really close to where I can't actually see a difference between the rod and the puddle. That seemed to work well. Hopefully I will get some big scrap today so that my dad won't get POd when everything in the back yard is welded together. My main problem right now is just that my welds are cracking in the middle of the filler material when joining things together. It is also really easy to melt the metal all the way through. I will try out my new rods to see what they will do. Thanks again. I will let you know how this learning experience goes.
And yes TC, you bet I am also going to weld a motocycle trailer. If I get a good one built, I wil get a MIG welder and make a duplicate out of aluminum. That is why I want a spool gun.

[HobbyMan]

Ok, I am fficially out of garage door parts. Everything has been welded together. I am going to get the band saw out and try to weld steel tube. MAby I could make qa bicycle frame (I doubt it) Thats all the material I have left and my truck is not running this weekend. I have a trailer but dad stole the suburban. Well at least I used a lot of rod today. How far down the rod should I go before getting a new one. I have been stopping at about 2.5 inches from the handle

[HobbyMan]

THis is what happens when an 18 yr old gets his hands on a welder:
I call it garage door ala-mode with trampoline sprinkled on top.

It is going to get larger when I get more metal.







Sorry I don't have better photos but I don't know how to get a link to the whole album. Anyway, it holds me alright

[TopCatGr58]

Clean your metal first!

Hey Andrew,

Do you have a power grinder, simple 4.5" or so? You should clean your metal in the area where you are going to make the welds first, to get to bare metal, not any rust! That may be another reason for cracking? Remember, you're not just GLUEING the parts together with molten metal, but you are actually fusing them by melting some of the metal in both parts and also providing some more filler metal, that's what's in the "pool" when you are running your bead. Rust and other contaminants can weaken the resultant pool and can lead to cracks and such.

Looks like you've got some nice pieces of angle iron, put a cutting blade on your grinder, cut the pieces down, and then try joining them together in a useful form, like a box, frame, etc.!

You'll want to practice some of the basic joints, butt, and others I can't remember right now! Use two pieces of the flat sections of angle iron and try to join them with a long seam, making a "U" shape out of them. Then you can inspect the underside for the proper blue color change to check your weld penetration depth!

Do you have a slag wire brush and such. I found it better to make small sections cleaning off the spatter after an inch of so of welding, keeps the unwelded sections cleaner so you don't get slag contamination into the pool mix when you finally get to that part!

Do you have any welding clamps? IF not, then you will also want to practice some preliminary tack welds first to help position the two pieces to be joined, otherwise, you will find that the metal will bend, tighten towards the weld joint as the metal cools!!
Have fun, learn lots!
T.C.

[HobbyMan]

Thats actually garage door track Its realy thin but galvanized. THe rusty pieces were just tack welded on for practice. Most of the bad looking pieces got that way from welding rod. I started out cleaning before but that was taking a long time. Tomorrow I am going to get the band saw and cut everything down into really small chunks. I will turn them into boxes and things like you said. I decided a few hours ago that My time would be better spent trying to build usefull things. Today I was just trying to strike as many welds as possible. When you look up close at the later welds and compare them to my first ones, they are looking much better. I have some extra steel pipe that tomorrow will become a bicycle frame. Now that I am getting the hang of it, I am going to try to make all of the welds look professional. I believe the reason that the welds were cracking was because of bad rods. There were no cracks today with my new rods. I made some small boxes with thicker metal and those welds came out nice. Most of the welds started out really nice but when I came back over them, I was too far away so it spattered everywhere. Well, I am learning and thats the important thing. I feel now that I am able to build my trailer but I will try building the bicycle frame first. Hopefully the weather will cooperate. I am still looking for a good power source. Thanks again

[oseaghdha]

Galvanized

Don't recommend welding galvanized. It makes some bad poisonous fumes when you burn on it.

[Hired_Goon]

Galvanised is only a problem if it is hot dip galvanised. Simple galvabond (not sure what they call it there) is a thinner treatment. I weld with galvabond all day long without a problem.

Interested in some pics of these "cracks".

Never really had any problems with cracking using a stick welder.

I always judge my stick welds by how well the "slag" falls off. If you have to chip it hard to remove it then it's not a good weld. If it only takes a small "tap" to remove it leaving a nice shiny weld underneath then it's a good weld.

Practice makes perfect.

Also have a gander Here

[LoserShoes]

Cracking in the middle is probably slag inclusions. You say you can see the difference between the slag and puddle, hold the rod at an angle that makes the slag flow across the top of the puddle and accumulate behind it, about 45 - 50 degrees is usually about right. Once you see the proper way it helps alot.

6013 is a sheet metal rod designed for thin materials. The characteristics of the rod are controlled by the content of the coating. The Lincoln welding site has some really good information on it.

Stick welding is an art, and learning to watch the puddle is how its done.

Steve