possible engine lock-up?

[yamarider]

I was channel surfing the other night when I came across a show that had a guy riding his classic four-cylinder Honda after just getting off of work. He is riding along for a while when suddenly his rear wheel locks up, and for some reason he goes flying over the handle bars, impaling himself right on top of an iron fence. OUCH!!

Well, the crack crime investigators determined, with the help of the lab geniuses, that someone had transferred the acid out of his battery into the crank case. After a few minutes of riding, the acid had some kind of reaction with the oil and caused his engine to "blow". The lab boys were certain this was the cause because 1) - the battery was dry, and 2) - acid was found in the dilluted oil.

Of course they didn't exactly elaborate on what kind of reaction it was, and personally I don't believe it could happen. Why go through all of that trouble when you can just cut a brake line? Any chemists out there with an opinion??

[TopCatGr58]

Hey YamaRider,

Just a quick web search for "engine oil acid", reveals many sites that talk about the TBN...total base number, which is measured for oils for their Anti-Acid properties. Engine oils produce acids just from running, breakdown, contamination, etc., and when these acids reach a critical point, then they can quickly corrode and breakdown the metal surfaces....especially the bearings and other friction surfaces!

So...sure it could have led to the engine freezing up....from burning up bearings, etc.!

But....whether the acid was from the battery, or just from excessive use of bike without oil changes, and the battery may have been overcharged, or again, poor maintainance and allowed to run dry!?!?
T.C.

[prometheus578]

"TV...don't get me started.

Ya know... thinkin' about it now, that was one of the "good points" about that woman I was dating last spring. She had no cable! Oh, we'd rent movies and cuddle("Oh, No... not Prom!") on the couch... but it was great... no TV.
Ok... mind back on task.
Anyway... I think this story is bogus. Now, I can't question Yamarider, as I didn't see the show, but must rely instead on his interpretation of it, and the way he has worded his statements, which may or may not be what was actually stated. Not that any errors are intentional, but we all shorten sentances to ease the speed of typing, and oft times a few critical facts get left out. Or the fact we're a little loopy in the first place. Remember, TV, even your evening news, is not designed to inform, but to entertain.
I shall attack this based upon what was given.
What was the purpose of this show?
Why was he photographed? What I mean is: Guy gets offa work, cruises for a bit, and then the rear wheel locks up. Why was someone filming a guy, who just got offa work, driving down the road? Or, was the scene shot by a highway camera, the subject being a guy who just happened to get offa work, etc.
What kind o' boob would take acid out of a battery and put it in someone's crankcase? Seems a little extravagant when there's much better ways to ruin an engine. Let's see... I disconnect his battery, pour the acid onto a container('cause trying to dump it in his oil fill hole from the holes of the 6 battery cells would be messy) dump the acid into the engine, and then put the battery back into the bike. Just doesn't cut it fer me.
Uumm..., well...., maybe he took the battery's vent tube, and plugged it into the engines manifold vacuum nipple? I don't think so, either, for a number of reasons. Vacuum would suck the air out of the battery, maybe some acid too, but wouldn't drain the thing... a negligeable amount making it to the crankcase, after first being burned up in combustion.
Now... not being a Honda mech.... but I doubt that Honda has 4 cylinder bikes that run offa a magneto, meaning that the bike can run without a battery. Isn't that what is intoned here? Battery acid fried the guys engine.... his battery was dry... it was acid from his battery. I just don't follow this.
Did he use the starter motor to start the bike? I mean... His battery was empty. (Everytime that my bike doesn't crank, before I kick start it, I smell my oil to see if it smells like acid. One never knows)
Was this some sort of 'Reality Show"?, or was it a rerun of "CHP's" or "The 'A'-Team, where they're chasing a car down the street, it runs over a squirrel, which causes it to flip over and burst into flames? The more far-fetched, the better the viewing.
I do not doubt you, Yamarider, as you can only report what you see; I doubt the integrity of the show.
The rear end of my Lemans Sport locked up in traffic thirty years ago, but no one analysed my 90 weight. Of course, no one was injured, but...
Someone removed the nut holding the balljoint to the spindle on my Camaro and I dropped the A frame(The threads on the stud weren't stripped... I figured new girlfriends mechanic ex boyfriend. (The feds didn't get involved in that one, either)
While the film footage may have been real... the rest seems embellished for sensationalism.
Sure... it could have happened... but I doubt in the manner presented.
And yes, T.C. is correct. Damage to bearing surfaces could be done, but I doubt done that quickly. The damage would consist initially of... what? A thinning of the oil? I see twenty or thirty bikes a year with gas in their crankcases(based upon amount drained out of the crank, one with more gas than oil!) Have only seen one bike totally fried because of it. Sure, some incurred damage to the bearings, I suppose, but ran for years afterwards.
"Gee... My bikes is knockin' something fierce! I think I better ride home from work faster before the crank seizes."
I doubt that the bike would start with an empty battery.
And if by some mechanism the battery was drained into the crank while it was running, the bike would have died electrically before any real damage was done.
Like you said, Yamarider,"Why go through all the trouble. Much easier to just drain the oil out, and unplug the oil pressure sending unit so the light doesn't turn on, but this only works if the rider is totally deaf, or has a hearing loss in the "engine knocking" frequency range.
"What's the catch phrase of that other bogus, scripted show? Oh, yeah... "Myth Busted!"

[oseaghdha]

Locked up engine would not chuck you over the bars, just low side you.

[MikeFromMT]

I agree with the last 2 posters, was this some Hollywood cop show? (I'm guessing so) if the rear tire locks up you either stop (after a long skid) of you fall over, I've grabbed too much front brake on my Ducati and pulled the back tire up but hitting the rear brake just resulted in a skid, not being launched over the bars (excluding the time I T-boned a car)
I once poured a pint of sulferic acid into an engine crankcase to see what it would do (my own version of mythbusters) that car ran 6 months before I changed the oil and gave it to my roommate (the cars value was based upon the amount of gas in the tank) depending on the type of acid, you may or may not harm metal surfaces, in this case there was probably more damage due to viscocity break down in the oil than from acid corrosion.

I'm not a chemist but I played one at work...

I think you could do more damage by filling the crake case with water than any other liquid. (commonly available to most people)

JMTC

[jimboreeno]

OK, YOU CAUGHT ME..
I FILLED THE CRANK CASE WITH ACID

Then I left the anonomous note instructing my victim to drive TOWARD the fence.

THEN I sent the story to Crime Drama and they reinacted it with Eric Estrada as the motorcycle rider.
Of course I gave them the idea to use him...

THEN I got the codes for Yamarider's remote and flipped it to the reinactment show...Yes Yamarider, it was I who wrote you that note and left it on your windshield suggesting you submit this thread!

Face it you guys...I am a criminal mastermind!

you'll never take me alive coppers!

[mro]

Face it you guys...I am a criminal mastermind!

you'll never take me alive coppers



Please send yamaLube to:
jimboreeno
C/O cell XS11
Folsom Prision
94572



mro

[yamarider]

Well, it was one of those CSI-type shows. The main point is that someone wanted this guy dead, and the sensationalism of him flying over his handlebars and stabbing himself with a couple of pointy iron fence rails that just happened to be in the way was all about drama. The investigators figgured out that the perp used a syringe to transfer the acid to the crank case. Yes, he did use the starter to fire up the engine, and if I am not mistaken, a good battery would render at least one start, even on empty.

[prometheus578]

Well, it was one of those CSI-type shows

Well, that answers that, then. I thought maybe something on public TV, reality, sort of.

a good battery would render at least one start, even on empty.

Nope.