shifting

[HobbyMan]

Does anyone shift without the clutch? Are there any problems with doing this? I have been doing this for a while now and it isnt any different than using the clutch. I just wanted to make sure it isn't harmful to the gears. I never have any problems with it and there aren't any noticable differences. I don't see many other people doing it.

[Dennyz]

I shift without the clutch all the time. Even when I use the clutch, I usually only pull it in about 25%.

I think if you know what you are doing, you're not hurting anything.

[chevy45412001]

speed shifting

i speed shift bout 75- 80 percent of the time. only use clutch to start and stop.

[HobbyMan]

I generally only do it when shifting past 2nd. I am glad to hear the I am not the only one who doesn't use the clutch all time. Is there any trick to downshifting w/out the clutch. I have never done it that way before.

[chevy45412001]

?

i have tried when clutch cable broke miles from home and i would NOT recomend it ,VERY harsh on equipment.

[Dennyz]

Down shifting without the clutch is tricky. I blip the throttle at the same time I drop down a gear. The timing is criticle and if I get it wrong it doesn't sound good.

I make the gear transition during the drive lash time between acceleration and compression. 2nd to 1st is the easiest because there is a neutral in between.

Does that make any sense?

[HobbyMan]

I think that I get it, just a little foggy on the "acceleration and compression" area. Seeing that it is much more difficult to downshift, and that I REALLY don't want to screw up the transmission, I will only use this technique upshifting. A little practice wouldn't hurt though. I Like the Idea of being able to shift w/out the clutch in case of a cable breaking. Maby I will find a cheap bike to rebuild so I can practice with it and not screw up countless man hours of rebuilding my G. Anyway, I was riding with some HD's on a rally for 9/11 and I got some wierd looks from some beginners who couldn't understand why I didn't need the clutch when shifting. It was also an interesting feeling when my Dad and I were the only Asain bikes out of around 50+ HDs. I guess someone has to represent.

[trbig]

Sometimes I ride to work with a cup of coffee in my hand, so shifting without the clutch is done sometimes... usually I use it though. I found that when I am approaching a stop sign... just coast as much as possible, then use a brake to slow down to almost lugging... maybe just a touch below idle. Gentle pressure on the shifter and it clicks right down (up?)... no need to force it. As you slow down... you can continue to do the same thing. This way of downshifting doesn't sound/feel hard on it at all.


Tod

[HobbyMan]

I will try that technique. That is an interesting picture, I would like to see someone driving down the road with their morning coffee in hand. Its too bad that I can't drink coffee on the road(full face helmet), that makes me jealous.

[strom]

Very very rarely I upshift sans clutch.... never downshift.

LP

[TopCatGr58]

Gears vs. Clutch Plates!

Hey Hobbyman,

As others have stated, the 1st and 2nd gears are the most delicate and used the most, so they get the most wear, that's partially why the 2nd gear failure syndrome, and 1st goes also!

As you said, you've just rebuild your machine, clutch cables and even clutch plates are much cheaper and easier to change than gears!! I essentially NEVER shift without the clutch, only did it a while back during my 1/4 mile trials! We won't go into what happened.....but a skyview is not my idea of seeing where you're going!!
T.C.

[80mdnt11]

Tranny Repairs

Coffee while polishing , Another cup to admire! Allways use clutch------up or down--------- !! Can you say BENT shifter fork!
Sure if youre on the track on youre TZ750 at Daytona or Mid-Ohio when youre going to have it down anyway to prep for next race!!!!!!!! As these trannys were built with that in mind, the 11 tranny--------well lets see, 11.com tech tips--------tranny repairs sec. is pretty thick I wouldnt recomend, but as the saying goes-------diff. strokes (shifts), diff. folks JMO

[MartyA]

Done properly upshifting without the clutch is theoretically easier on the gears.

Once you are underway, the technique is to preload the foot shift lever by pressing up on it and holding it there while you are still accelerating, then momentarily back off on the throttle slightly while still holding up on the shifter. The shift will occur at the moment the driveline pressure is off the gears. The shift feels like it just 'drops in.' Grab throttle and go. This all happens in less than 1/2 second. All this without touching the clutch lever on the handle bars.

It takes only one or two times to develop the knack of holding the shifter up, then it is just practice to make it feel normal. You can press up and hold the shift lever, it won't go into gear while under acceleration, only when you back off the throttle. And the effort is not that great, you don't need a lot of force.

Technically this is easier on the gears as you have [ideally] no mass or pressure on the gears when the shift actually occurs, and therefore the gears move at the most opportune time. When you momentarily back off the throttle the driveline is momentarily "slack" and the shift drops in. For the most part this works fine and causes very little or no damage.

Shifting using the clutch adds the weight of the clutch parts to the gears when you contact the gears, so theoretically that is harder on the gears than a "no weight" or driveline slack shift.

Done well the drag racer should see steady acceleration and obviously less less delay compared to using the clutch. Also there should be less tendency to wheelie since you have reduced the time of the decreasing acceleration inertia that happens when shift using the clutch, that is less interruption in the momentum of the bike. (Now if your bike wants to wheelie well sorry you will have to learn to slip the clutch or learn judicious use of the throttle. No bike like that comes to mind at the moment...)

I can only think that if there was any problems with clutchless shifting it might be from missing by a very small (microscopic) amount (timing or actual movement) and that could cause more eventual damage to the gears than using the clutch and all its associated mass over time, since there the mass of the entire driveline involved. Compare that to the few 'misses' using the clutch - clutch parts weigh much less that the entire driveline mass, thus less damage. And variation on the effort put on holding the shifter up may eventually cause some parts to bend and thus repairs are needed.

Downshifting without the clutch is the same concept, you have to unload the driveline mass momentarily. Ha! try THAT a couple of times and then call the tow truck! I am not familar with exactly how slipper clutches work but I think they play some part here. Dirt bikers do it all the time. I've tried it once or twice, never got it.

Personally I am not a racer and don't have a backer to replace damaged parts for me, so I use the clutch 99.999% of the time as recommended by every manufacturer. But if I am in a hurry (well, I did say IF) I can and do sometimes upshift without the clutch.

Now you can try it sometime to see how it works.

[BLUEJEEPLAB]

I am a firm believer in the fact that they put the clutch there for a reason. It helps in technicque, saves gears and provides me the ability to control power when I have to.

[HobbyMan]

Well, you need the clutch for starting out of course For now, I will go easy on it. When I get an "experiment" bike I will open up the tranny and take some before and after photos to get some real hard data. I just don't see how, if done right, it can do damage. I understand that It has the potential to do damage.