Announcement

**GNEPIG** · 07-08-2006, 07:28 PM

So the question is this -- what is to become of these old bikes that we love and ride so much? If this trend of crappy customer service and the independents taking advantage of people that are loyal to the older bikes spreads and continues, what will become?

.. we will all learn how to do all of the repairs required to maintain our own bikes and the shyster shops will become extinct.
..if you phuck enough people, the people will go away..

.. but the point of veiw from the other side of the fence: i dont know you, but you might be one of those people that the shops want to see go away.

**TopCatGr58** · 07-08-2006, 07:48 PM

Alright Gene, Play Nice!

Yamarider, Gene's an actual bike mechanic, so he's just playing devil's advocate!

Sorry to hear about your recent bad experience with that shop!

You didn't elaborate on the circumstances, so we can't say much about what happened to you, and whether it might have been what is considered normal practices by reputable mechs, or agree with you in that you got shafted!?

Have you thought about contacting your local BBB to find out if there have been other recent complaints?

Well, most of us have learned to perform both basic and then advanced maintainance and repair procedures in hopes of keeping our beloved machines on the road and running properly. Thankfully our machines are not so technologically advanced that they require engineering degrees to fix them!

T.C.

**jeffe** · 07-09-2006, 03:28 AM

I feel bad for what happened but here is my 2 cents. When I bought my 78E I knew it pretty only much needed a card rebuild, which I felt uncomfortable doing. None of the Yamaha dealers wanted to deal with it. A friend told me about the Westerville Service Center. I heard good things about him, yes it is one man operation, so I took a chance. He's rebuilt my carbs and done some other things I either felt uncomfortable with or didn't want to screw with.

The guy that owns it realizes that all his business comes from people like me, people that will reccomend him to friends.
He is the kind of guy that will take the time to talk you through a problem if he can, helped me with my ignition problem.
But there is another side to this, if he is loyal to me am I loyal to him? As an example. I bought my tires from Iron Pony, which is about 1/2 mile from his shop. If you buy new tires from them they offer free mounting if you bring them the rim off the bike. And I can take off a wheel.

Instead of doing this I decided to give him the business because I knew that this was a profitable thing for him to do. Not much time involved, etc.

So my point is we have to work together and help these people stay in business.

**prometheus578** · 07-09-2006, 06:42 AM

"Ahhh... the ol' Pain in the A$$ file"

one of those people that the shops want to see go away.

I've got a coupla' people in that file. People who I won't deal with again.
People like the guy that asked if I would work on his machine at my home and charge him less. (I knew right away he would be trouble when it came to paying his bill)
And like the guy this week, who when dropping off his bike was told that I have a three week backlog, but called the next day, and the next two days after that, asking if his bike was done. I told him to come and pick it up. "Oh... is it done already?" "No... I haven't touched it yet... just come and get it."
Or the Bull $hit artist who wanted his two quads fixed as soon as possable. Of course... he said he was too busy to clean the mud off them first. He was way too important to haul them to the car wash two lights down the road... so I had to drop my wrench and wash them before working on them. Of course... that added $75 to his bill. And... just to get rid of them, I managed to squeeze them in between big jobs and finished them within three days.
I now have the pleasure of pushing them out of the bay each morning to make room to work, and pushing them back in each night. He's much too busy to come pick them up, and feels that we can store them for him till he wants to use them again. As of today... his storage charge is $100.
Or the guy today. "When I dropped off my quad, you said that you were gonna look at it for free!" HHmm... he must have talked to my evil twin, 'cause he sure didn't talk to me. "Why do I have to pay for a new spark plug... I just put one in last week?" "Sir... you brought me a machine that wasn't running and had a fouled plug. That new plug got it runnin' again. And by the way, I noticed that you have a brand new air filter in there, what happened to the old one?"
"Oh, it was caked with mud and had holes in it."
"That's what I figgered... It's foulin' plugs and blowin' smoke 'cause you've fried your rings",etc. Turns out that he wanted me to diagnose his machine for free, so that he could take it home and fix it himself. (nothin' wrong with fixin' it himself, but my time is my paycheck)
Oh, the list goes on and on.
Now I know... none of us fine XS'ives would ever treat our mechanics in this manner.
You only have one mechanic, but the mechanic have several hundred customers, most of dubious mental stability that he has to contend with.
A little tip: Ya wanna get preferential treatment? Ya want your mechanic to fix little problems for free? Ya want your mechanic to fix your machine like it was his own? Sure, you're payin' him, but show a little appreciation for his efforts. My favorite customers are the people that once, years ago, dropped off a six pack of beer, a bottle of brandy, baked an apple pie or just said thanks.

the local shops, who are the only ones that will deal with older bikes

Every major shop here works on old bikes, with the exception of harley as it doesn't fit their image any longer. Most will work on anything: a carb is a carb, a fork seal's a fork seal. Hell, I've got two Honda's, a Suzuki and a Yamaha somethin'or other in my line-up for next week and we're a KawaTriumphVictory dealer!
Ya want another dealership to work on your bike? Tell them that you'll bring in the Clymer Manual when you drop it off in case they want to reference specs or proceedures. And if the work requires a part that can only be ordered from Yamaha, tell your mech that you'd be happy to order it and run and pick it up to save him the hassle. (If I have to run to Honda to pick up a $5 gasket, that's an hour of shop time and an extra $75 on the bill)

**sleazybear** · 07-09-2006, 01:45 PM

As a mechanic for 25 years I have seen just about everything, the customer that wants it yesterday, the customer that thinks it should be free. I am a heavy equipment mechanic by trade, motorcycles are not something I have had much experiance with, but it all bolts together the same way it came apart. We all have had nightmares with mechanics and shops. If you had a problem with my work, I would want to know about it, but don't expect me to do things out of my control You can give a person exactly what they want and they will still have a problem. Mechanics are not perfect, we do the best we can to fix things right for the best price we can give. Now if you had something fixed and it wasnt fixed right, by all means dont return to the shop, shops are normaly not out to screw anyone, but sometimes a customer and a shop do have disagrements, get an est. for the work before its done. I have an x11 thats been sitting for 6 years, the front brakes would stick at times, had a shop rebuild the front brakes, come to find out all they did was put in new seals and sit it out the door and charge $175, no I wont return because what needs done, is the front brake lines and mastercylinder cleaned out from flakes. No worries though, I will fix it myself, know its done right, and ride happly down the highway..

**remccool** · 07-09-2006, 01:48 PM

Life's lessons

This has nothing to do with bikes, but....
I used to own a computer repair shop. I actually had a customer tell me that I should fix his computer for free, because he was sure it wouldn't need parts and since I knew how to fix it I should. I tried to explain basic economics to him, if I work for free my shop would be out of business because I couldn't pay the bills with nothing coming in. I finally told him that I would meet him friday afternoon at his job and if he signed his paycheck back to the company he worked for AND told his boss "Thanks for letting me work for free" , then I would fix his computer for free. He got very indignant and explained to me that he wasn't going to work for free, so I looked him in the eye and asked him "If you won't, why do you think I will?". Needless to say a few weeks later he brought it in and I fixed for my normal rate (very low compared to any one else in that area at that time). And like all small business owners, these customer horror stories could go on for hours, about 50 popped into my head while typing !
The bottom line is, treat everyone the way you want to be treated, whether it's the waitress at the restaurant or the local repairman, treat them with respect and it will be returned. I've learned that trying to "force" my will on them to do what I want when and how I want it does no one any good, causes hard feeling on all sides and helps absolutely nothing, and if I could do the job I wanted them to do, I would have already done it, so my telling them how isn't going to help either.

**yamarider** · 07-09-2006, 07:02 PM

With one of the indie shops, with which I had been doing business with since day one eons ago, it was an issue of business ethics. What happened was when I rescued the '80 XS a few years ago, it needed several things, both mechanical and cosmetic. I spent close to $800 in his shop getting that bike to where I wanted it.

Then I put the bike down in an unfortunate accident. It was pretty wasted, so I agreed to have it towed off because I wasn't interested in keeping it for parts. By law, the salvage yard can not release a vehicle without the title. After sitting on it for about three months, I finally mailed it in to the yard that had it. Well it turned out that the indie shop owner was in kahoots with the guy at the salvage yard. Within two weeks, the shop owner had the nerve to call me (he had my # on file) and ask for the key! He admitted that he knew it was mine when it rolled into his shop and proceeded to tell me how he re-sold all of the salvageable cosmetic parts -- I had to leave them on because the tow truck driver wouldn't let me strip parts before he took it away.

So rather than call me up and offer to let me strip things that I may have wanted, he made money TWICE on those things, all in the name of the almighty dollar. Granted, I had "written off" the bike in my mind, but he still could have been cool and give me the chance to use those things on other bikes.

Went back to his shop only once, when I was totally desperate.

**TopCatGr58** · 07-09-2006, 08:15 PM

It was pretty wasted, so I agreed to have it towed off because I wasn't interested in keeping it for parts.

Well, Yamarider,

Releasing it for towing to begin with instead of having it towed to your home kinda sent a message that you didn't want to have anything to do with it. Yes, the owner 1st made money from selling the parts for it to you. But when he was able to attain it from the salvage yard, since you had allowed it to be towed, then he had all the right to expect that you didn't want any part of it, so he was well within his rights to make any money from it that he could. It's called business! I have to side with the shop.

If you had wanted to salvage any of the parts from it, then you should have not had it towed AWAY, but to your home!
T.C.

**Pat Kelly** · 07-09-2006, 11:27 PM

I have my totalled Suburban sitting in the backyard. I'm removing stuff I want (stereo, wheels, DVD players, etc). When I'm done I'll sell the hulk to a wecking yard. The top offer I've had from them is $200 for the truck. They can have whats left.
Im figuring $400 for a decent set of BFG tires on centerline rims, stereo goes in my truck, other things on Ebay.
Anyone need parts from a 1984 K1500 Chevy Suburban? (off-list please)

**pggg** · 07-10-2006, 12:31 AM

THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT.

**prometheus578** · 07-10-2006, 01:40 AM

Basic Business 101

When I sell a car to the junk yard for $35, it becomes theirs. When they turn around and sell the doors, hood, engine, etc, and make a $500 profit, that is theirs, too. That is the business... that is their business. If two weeks later I purchase the same style car with a dented fender, I cannot go to the junkyard and ask them to give me the fender off my 'old car' for free. I had given up all ownership of it.
Same for bikes. When it was "sold" to the wrecking yard, it bcame their's to do what they wish with it. The price the "Indie shop" paid the wrecking yard for the bike may have taken into account the salvageable parts on it. The shop bought the bike with the intent of 'parting' it out. That too, is a business.
The tow truck driver was correct in not letting you pull parts offa the bike, because at that time, the bike probably belonged to the yard, not you. Tow truck drivers also often are paid by the job. Time is money to them, and they're not gonna stand around with the engine running while a vehicle owner strips a car or wastes his time removing personal items that should have been taken out already.
Once a machine is legally declared abandoned or sold (as in sold to a wrecking yard) the owner loses all claim to it.(and it's parts)
As for the shop being in 'cahoots' with the wrecking yard, I doubt it. Cahoots would be if the shop and wrecking yard somehow were able to "plan" your accident in order to make a profit off of you. All the wrecking yards in the area have my business card, with instructions to contact me if any 1100's or 850's come in. That's not 'cahoots'. That's business. And if they get a bike that I recognize as a customer's, I'd call the guy up and ask for keys, manuals or any spare parts he still might have laying around. Keys I'd expect to get as a courtesy, as they're basically worthless to him. Parts and such, I'd expect to pay him for.
The bike shop has a side business of "BUYING" bikes from a wrecking yard, either to part out, or to get running and resell. If a shop buys a bike from someone for $500, and then turns around and sells it for $1,500, that's perfectly ethical. If the original owner then sings, saying the shop screwed him and demands part of the extra profits... that's a sign of low character.
Now, Yamarider.... I'm not saying that that's the case with you. Rather, that because you're involved here directly at an personal level, it's difficult to step back and view this from an impersonal and non-emotional distance like we can.
If the work that the shop had done previously for you was satisfactory, there's no reason for you to not visit them again.

(Some very good points, Remccool. I sometimes have to remind people, "It's not my machine and I didn't break it. But if you would like me to fix it, this is what it will cost.")

**jeffe** · 07-10-2006, 06:50 AM

Just a couple more thoughts. Number one is that I have worked in a customer service field for almost 30 years. I supervise a department for an independant company that provides "high end" pest control in peoples homes. We also charge people what it worth. Unlike a lot of companies in this business we have long term highly trained employees. But we still have people who want us to charge low end prices. We do not budge from what we do. It amazes me when get a call from one of the people that insisted on low prices asking us to come out now and fix their problem, that someone else screwed up. So I do feel the pain of you guys that make a living working on bikes. The guy at the independent shop that I go to is very up front about his back log. He is also up front about any "hidden" things that he might find when he gets into the job. Because of what I do, I always take time to ask people who give service why they do. I also take the time to point out to a manager when I recieve less that good service. The fellow at the repair shop has a very simple way at tlooking at it, which is probally the best. "Treat people like you want to be treated."

**remccool** · 07-10-2006, 08:25 AM

Originally posted by pggg
THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT.

Actually, the customer may not always be right, but they are the customer. If a customer wants something done that is mechanically faulty, or illegal, it IS the business owners responsibility to point that out, and depending on what it is, respectfully refuse to do the work. In today's sue everyone society, as a business owner, I have learned that sometimes the customer and I are both better off if they go somewhere else. No one can work for free, and if a customer isn't willing to pay for services rendered, then technically they are not a customer (because of the friendly nature of this forum, I wont say what I call them

)
But , you would be correct in saying that most customers who have never owned a business or even managed one will believe that if they say it, it must be true. (ie: The customer is always right)

**webbcraft2150** · 07-10-2006, 08:54 AM

yamarider, I can appreciate your frustration here. I take it very personal when I feel I have been screwed by someone. As for buying a late model scoot with a warranty and such, thats your call. When you ride/own a bike thats 20+ years old, you have to figure doing alot of the work yourself. To me, thats just part of the deal. There has been several times when my XS has frustrated me to the point of wanting to get rid of it. Fortunatly, I have not done that. I will simply walk away from it and go back to it later when I have calmed down (and looked here for help). I would not even consider taking my rig to a Yamaha shop due to its age, associated costs and the fact most shops won't even take it in. Since I moved to Austin, I have found a small, one man shop that does nothing but repairs. I found them thru word of mouth when I needed to have my bike inspected. The owner was very courteous to me, commented on the condition of my bike and knew what a XS11 was (even asked me if I had the 2nd gear issue yet). Because of this first meeting, I use him all the time for parts. Sure, I could buy them somewhere else cheaper but the relationship I have built with him is priceless. He remembers my name and the bike. I know he cut me some slack when I bought tires from him because I always come back. He appreciates the fact I drive clear across town to deal with him. I may be more fortunate than some here 'cause my XS was purchased in excellent condition and has not been a major pain in ass, yet. I will continue to do what it takes to keep it on the road so long as I can scrounge up parts and this site can answer my questions.

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