Yamaha dealer disaster

[chaklid]

Hi to everyone who is going to help me solve this one:

XS 1100SF, 51K, had it for 4 years ran immaculately. never a carb problem, cleaned and adjusted it every year. started up with a fraction of a key turn any day, any season. it was time for to replace a noisy timing chain, and in the interest of time, took it to the Yamaha dealer.

I then got a call; chain is in, noise is gone, but it will not run right. It sure does not. I am pretty experience with carbs but this one get me. Problem:

it will start only with the choke wide open. ruturn the choke and it will stall. if kept alive with the throttle, it will stutter and spit like a wild cat. if reved up it will not come back down from around 4k rpm even though the i can see the actuator come back. when it does, it will not idle. when i hold it for idle with the throttle, like i said, especially #1 carb will spit and back fire consistently, and the others occassionally. fuel flows normally

they claim they did not touch the carbs. by the way, when taken out on the road, it will initally accelarate normally, then when you open the throttle to accelerate again it will choke and boge down like fuel starvation. if you stop and accelerate again, it will run up normally. when cruising, it will hesitate slightly.

So what gives, what am I missing. I have taken it apart, inspected every orifice, adjusted all to spec and so on.

Please, everyone that has any ideas let me have them.

Thanks y'all; if I can be of ANY assistance, please do not hesitate.

Chakli

[Geezer]

Run a compression test. I'll bet there are bent valves...

Geezer

[XJOK2PLAY]

+1 w/ Tony... or they've got it out of time... or both.

[Yard Dogg]

I would take it back to them and tell them to redo it. They probably put it back in wrong. If they won't, then take it to someone else to fix it and bill them for it. Obviously they f----ed up.

[psycoreefer]

+1 on what the others have said. I wouldn't have even agreed to take it home. At the very least I would contact them and insist they refund whatever they charged you for labor. If they resist contact the BBB in your area. Contact Yamaha and explain. The dealer should return the bike in no worse condition then they accepted it. Check your compression, I'm also guessing bent valves, in which case the dealer should pay for the repairs - to be done by someone competent, not by them.

[sctxms]

time and valves

Sounds like the bike is out of time and due to that u may now have a bent valve because someone did not install things correctly

[ross]

dealership=IIDIOTS!!!

hey there folks gotta chime in on this one....lets start with the video clip.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54mf61KN7wA
most dealerships don't have a clue into what kind of historical masterpiece your are bringing in....h*ll had to help the "veteran" mechanic remove the rear tire just to replace it....trust me....he had not a clue!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hyXz...om=PL&index=11
(mechanic is the one in the stocks...you are ren, the helpless xs11 owner!)
(you think you have him by the n*tz, but in reality, he has you by both the n*tz and shorthairs!_)
....other than that, not much 2 say.....ride hard, ride safe...ross

p.s. if that p*sses you off, fix it your self.....many can ride, few can fix!

[Jerry]

OK. To replace the timing chain they probably removed the fuel tank and undid all the fuel lines. Also pulled the timing cover. Unlikely they did anything to the carbs, and if you had bent valves the bike would not run at all...trust me.

My guess...they messed up your fuel routing lines or your advance pick-up wires. I would check to make sure the fuel lines are properly connected, then turn my attention to the advance mechanism. I would bet it is either broken wires or a stuck advance plate, check both.

[ross]

labor rates...

hey there folks....just a measurement for labor rates at the dealership....

$42.50 per 1/2 hour.......translates into $90 per hour to fix the dealerships fubar(plus parts!).....just my .02 cents....ride hard, ride safe...ross

[Geezer]

I still think it's only running on a couple cylinders and there are a couple three bent valves. I'd start with a compression test because it should always be done anyway.

I'm looking forward to finding out what the problem really is...

Geezer

[SFSPECBIKER79]

check wiring

im thinking like jerry. the pick up wires. my 79 special also acted the same way. except it would idle perfect, but would run perfect til you opened throttle and hit 2000 rpm it would spit and sputter. at cruising it would run perfect again. i would check all wireing connections, behind the fuse box also, if your bike runs perfect at any rpm id say it is electrical or starving for fuel, like clogged filters or screens over the needle valves in carbs. checking the color of plugs can indicate rich or lean conditions. check the vent hole in gas tank lid it could be blocked,a compression check would be a good idea to just to besure it is ok.

[DGXSER]

Thinking through a cam chain replacement, and the symptoms your describing that I saw on another members bike. I am going with the bent valve crowd on this one.

It is way to easy for the goofball to put both cams in without thinking and then turn them to get them in time after they are both in and tightened down, before putting the chain on. This is an easy way to bend a valve or two, only the young dufus the dealership had take over at that point (so their star performer could work on the next V-Star that needs new exhaust to make it louder for the owner so it osunds more like his buddies Harley) won;t have a clue he did anything wrong and completely disregard that little metal clank he heard. Bent valve will send compression out the carb(s) even blow the vacuum plug off the carb nipple. Bike will run, but sound like total crap and never be smooth or even or idle for crap. BTDT.

[Larrym]

What it Takes or Not....

The current dysfunction is the result of the actions taken by the repair shop/technician. Whatever the mechanical reason, bent valve(s), incorrectly shimmed valve, or whatever, the responsibility to correct it lies with the shop.

As a customer of that shop your are obligated to take it back to them and insist that they correct the problem. This is called "due regard": doing what any reasonable person would do in a situation. It is part of an implied "good faith" arrangement between you and any service provider.

Think of it like ordering a steak at a restaurant and getting a bad piece of meat. If you willingly eat it then your actions are viewed as "implied consent" that the meat was OK enough for you. No complaints and acceptance on your part equals no problem for the waiter to deal with. Any reasonable person would send the steak back and reasonably expect the waiter to return with what you wanted in the first place.

It's awkward to be sure but the best course of action is to simply take the bike back after documenting the bike's condition via video/audio. Not recommended for you to do any invasive disassembly which could be used by the shop as a means of pointing the finger of blame at you for the malfunction.

The clock is ticking on this "action chain" between you and the repair shop. It's really just a game of chicken between you and the shop. Don't flinch. Don't blink. It also helps to not have any undocumented "meetings/discussions" between you and the service personnel. Go in there with a tape recorder and inform them that as it is a formal meeting, you'll be recording it for your own purposes. Rather than take notes of what was said by whom, you're going to let technology do it for you. You do have that legal right to do so. Also helps to have a second person there as a witness.

The idea is that you're not going to tell the shop what to do. But if they don't act responsibly then you're going to put the matter before someone (usually wears a black robe and has a gavel on their desk..) who can tell them what to do and enforce it. Demonstrating "due regard" and continued "good faith" on your part while the shop "weasels" on you along with documenting the actions/non-actions of both parties makes for a rather entertaining experience in small claims court. Not that you're not gonna give the shop every opportunity to avoid that by being totally reasonable at every step of the repair process.

Like I said, it's a game of chicken and if you do fail to assert yourself and your rights as a customer then for all practical purposes you have chosen to be a willing victim. Willing victim equals no harm, no foul, and no crime.

The shop is gambling/betting on the side that says you won't assert yourself and your rights as a customer. That's because the last 4 out of 5 customers did cave in. It's all about maintaining that ratio of wins-to-losses for them. Likely that they'll try intimidation at first but in the end the outcome is dependent on whether or not you're willing to see this through.

Your choice makes your fate.

(And the bike's of course.

[62xs]

I'm going with larrym's response on this one. Stand your ground video and audio is the way to go. Just don't call the guy a c***** m********* on the tape turn it off while leaving and do it.

[Bdriver]

Mystery problem

I'm with Larrym's solution. I used to be a dealership technician (automotive). I prided myself on getting the job done right the first time. Not all mechanics are the same. Some shops have lower standards then others. In your situation I recommend you take your bike directly back to the shop and demand they fix it RIGHT. Don't back down,Demand it. Then walk away. If they still hardball you, a letter from an attourney does wonders. Good luck.