Godzilla Resurrection: Re-build thread

[RichW1064]

Brother... we are after all XS11.com... nice... smiles... ("see my bucket's) sharing...

[red bandit]

I don't think a rectangular/square groove for an oring is a problem. The OEM oil filter cup/canister is rectangular. The depth and diameter is important.

[RichW1064]

we do and are representing something that we may not fully understanding, as brothers we do and shall share a forward future with those that are up and coming, we refer to them as young brothers.... we do indeed welcome our young brothers here in the XS11.com realm.... welcome young brothers... a next generation folks... it's real and we are proof.... wonderful.... amen......


Richw1064 (aka Richie...) (hardy_dam_mi) hot bike this...

[MPittma100]

Exhaust Temperature

T.C.,

Exhaust temperature will be well over any of the engine paint temperature rating. Most exhaust paint will become a flat finish look once heat cycled. Best results is to let it dry thoroughly before starting engine. Exhaust temperature can reach 1200-1400 degrees.

[3Phase]

If anyone asks, tell 'em you did it that way for authenticity.

When I first saw the picture with the green exhaust I didn't know it was heat, I thought you'd done some kind of extra work to give the paint an almost perfect mottled lizard look.

[TopCatGr58]

lol... this is the best I could find relating to the windshield verse's forehead TC...

Hey Rich,

That's perfect, even has green eyes!

Skids, I didn't know you were an engineer! Well, I don't know if I'd call it re-engineering vs. just tweeking it a bit. But I'm happy to be the test pilot as well. The problems I had really weren't directly related to the changes and upgrades I had done on this recent build, but from previous mods that I hadn't expected to experience any problems. But I'm also learning, and will ensure that I don't set the ALT drive belt too tight, it's a low drag/resistance design anyways, so it doesn't really need much tension/friction to keep it from slipping the drive belt. And the SOFA leak was a combination of the wrong type of sealant, along with an OLDER O-ring channel design.....I now make a round channel to better secure/seal it vs. the rectangular type, and I had acquired larger/thicker, tougher Buna-N O-rings from McMaster-Carr vs. the OEM type, and so thankfully others that have installed their SOFA's haven't reported any other failure/leaks.

Mike, early when I was looking at this rebuild, I did find ceramic coating places that did have colors, but didn't have as much time as well as concerned about the $$ of getting it done....and was holding out on my budget getting the other $$ stuff bought/done like the custom seat, paint, gas tank filler spout and such.

I've got a nice infrared/laser temp sensor gun, and will try it out on the pipes later on to see just how hot both the headers as well as the muffler gets, to see if it's anywhere close to the 500 degrees limit of that engine paint???

T.C.

[MPittma100]

Exhaust

Quote:

"Scott, the muffler paint was 500degree engine paint, I didn't think the muffler section got anywhere near that hot compared to the headers where I used 1200 paint, but you can see the discoloration/blackening of the muffler paint. Not sure if another coat on top of it might help, it's ceramic based, can only try it??"

T.C.,

You may find a local ceramic coater that can do that color in a ceramic coating. It will last a long time on your exhaust.

[skids]

Hey Ron,

Thanks for the reminder about the Indian Head Gasket Cement. I had used the Red Gasket maker type silicone sealant, and then a layer of J-B Weld to help hold it in place, so I have a hard time believing that it came loose around the outer edge, but it's possible. I'll have to take the rotor and pulley assembly off to see exactly where it's leaking from, whether the outer edge or around the actual crank...but I'm suspecting the outer edge.

I should have used the ThreeBond instead of the RED RTV stuff. I also thought about using a thin sheet metal cut out to fit around the seal and J-B Weld it in place to be possibly even stronger than just the JB alone?? But I'm getting ahead of myself, need to do the autopsy first to see where it failed. Surprisingly the left side is holding. I did purchase 2 sets of seals in case I messed one up, so I have a spare to experiment with.

Scott, the filter crud is assumed to be old rubber bits from the old OEM petcocks valves, I had cut my own valves out neoprene gaskets years ago, but with the ethanol fuel, it probably broke it down and made it down the lines. The lines are good quality MotionPro stuff. The new petcocks have full tower metal mesh in-tank screens/filters.

Surprisingly, in 2011, the alternator was relatively cheap at around $80.00 with S&H included. I just had to pay full retail due to the brick/mortar store overhead. Because they are designed for racing applications, both drag as well as round track, street and strip, they only have a 1 year warranty, and I got 5 out of it! The specs stated they are rated for up to 18K rpms, with my pulley 1:1 ratio, it only gets to 8k max, mostly at 3-5 k constant speeds. They are supposed to have sealed bearings with special grease for low resistance for max horsepower/minimal drag. When I put the old one back in during the rebuild, I may have set the belt tension a little too tight, and it's a very short 20" long belt, and so may not have allowed enough slack?? That combined with the enclosed case, sitting behind the engine head 200+ degree radiant heat, 85+ ambient temps, and stop and go traffic may have cooked the bearing lube and the excessive belt tension could have led to the eventual bearing failure?

The steering geometry is much better. With my old bent frame/and reduced trail/rake the bike had a tendency to oversteer in corners...and I would need to consciously adjust my input to keep the bike on the line it needed to be instead of veering into/across the center lane on left hand twisties!! It now holds a course line very well...I still don't like left hand twisties, but it will now track the curve where I aim it. And when negotiating turns with bumps, it didn't feel like it had the wag the tail affect, but I didn't have the rear shocks set up as good as I possibly could. With the saddlebag frames on, I couldn't adjust the spring preloads, was only able to add some air into the air assist chambers which helped to stop the bottoming out I experienced on large dips/bumps especially with the extra weight I had in my bags/trunk/extra suitcase.

The engine mounts regrettably are almost as hard a solid, and that did induce some increased vibration that is felt in the handlebars and footpegs, and so my view in my mirrors was quite shaky/blurry! IF I have to pull the engine to do the repeat Dremmel fix, I may try to find some other more rubbery polyurethane material instead.

Okay, hope I covered everything.
T.C.

As an engineer, I have to admire your attempts at re engineering the xs11. Unfortunately you also become the testing department! The bike does look real nice TC!

[RichW1064]

lol... this is the best I could find relating to the windshield verse's forehead TC...

[3Phase]

Cool, no metal chunks or fuel line, just homebrew gasket! You should still make the time to do the tank, you'd be amazed what's in there... or maybe you wouldn't!

I am glad the handling is better! Did you notice any difference from welding up and stiffening the frame? It sounds like you had unstable fighter jet style handling instead of normal handling or the ten-foot springer wallow. That's a total bummer about the engine mounts though, and has it really been five years already for that alternator? You're supposed to buy a new bike every two or three years, why are you still riding that old heap?

Maybe you could fit the alternator belt with a spring-loaded, automatic serpentine or camshaft drive belt tensioner like for the cam chain mod'. The idler pulley would cut the belt lash under accel/decel, keep it in line and correctly tensioned without reefing on the alternator and ripping the bearings out of it.

[RichW1064]

Hey RichV,

Okay, you said you put a Special's front end onto a Standard's Frame.

The standards and specials have the same effective rake/trail with their respective parts. However, the Special has the leading axle, the standard has the fork end axle mount, and so their TripleTrees are designed differently to adjust for the different axle locations to end up with the same rake/trail despite the different axle locations.

The Special has the fork tubes placed closer, further rearward towards the steering neck due to the more forward axle position. The standard has the fork tubes a little more forward away from the neck due to the fork end axle location.

Just need clarification on your parts swap....you say you put a whole SG front end onto your standard....was it just the fork tubes/sliders but did you use the standard's TT's, or did you also swap out for the special's TT?

Fredintoon has informed us that the sidecar guys would put Special TT's onto their Standards sidecar hacks, but kept the standards forks/sliders/axle, and this would move the tubes closer to the steering neck which would reduce the trail and ease up the steering to make it lighter in the sidecar setup.

If you put a Standard's TT onto a special/forks/sliders/leading axle, you would increase the trail and make it heavier for steering.

But if you put the entire TT and matching tubes/sliders/axle from special to standard or Vice Versa, you will NOT change the trail/rake since ALL of the steering components are still together on the front end.

The Specials upper tubes are LONGER due to the higher leading axle location, the standards upper tubes are shorter due to the end of tubes axle location, but the lower sliders are designed to end up with the same overall length and position of the axle so the frame/steering neck should be at the same height/location.

However, the Standard does have a taller rear wheel, and that can have the frame sitting a little higher....the centerstands are different in length for the special and standards.

The standard TT places the fork tubes a little more forward, and with the angle of the TT's, that could position the upper tubes a little higher in position which could lower the position/height of the steering neck, but just a few mm's or so.

Perhaps the SG front end springs aren't as sprung/compressed vs. the standards, and that combined with the taller standard rear tire, it may be sitting higher??

T.C.

well what I discovered after fitting the tank (83 Maxim 1100 tank) on the 79 standard (slverbob) was that the triple tree was about ready to collapse, I had picked up a complete 80SG midnight forks w/TT and wanted to fit this to the other bobber, an 80SG also fitted with an Maxim 1100 tank and using the midnight theme (blkbob), pulled the complete assembly from the standard, did the same with the 80SG assembly, moved the 80SG assembly to the 79 standard, then installed the 80SG midnight to the now moving into the full midnight theme, including the gold caps on the swing arm. took the 79 standard assembly and set it aside labeled stock parts silver bob, they are in real bad condition. I haven updated any pic's in my bucket but feel free to wander about what I have up there. I did how ever notice that the tank support mounts at the frame appear to be a touch higher (I haven't measured to be clear). I have what was said to be side covers from a 78 standard as well as a 17" rear wheel with tire that I will be fitting to silver bob, a xs78/79/80 retro fit from around the country, this is silver bob... I love this place...


I am glad to see that you are back in the saddle and Godzilla is still your favored, wonderful TC... I will look around the internet to see what little smiley face we can find referring us to windshield verse's forehead safety... lol... looks like the trip was wonderful, alot of warm and friendly face's, I love this place TC... your all wonderful people...

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Ron,

Thanks for the reminder about the Indian Head Gasket Cement. I had used the Red Gasket maker type silicone sealant, and then a layer of J-B Weld to help hold it in place, so I have a hard time believing that it came loose around the outer edge, but it's possible. I'll have to take the rotor and pulley assembly off to see exactly where it's leaking from, whether the outer edge or around the actual crank...but I'm suspecting the outer edge.

I should have used the ThreeBond instead of the RED RTV stuff. I also thought about using a thin sheet metal cut out to fit around the seal and J-B Weld it in place to be possibly even stronger than just the JB alone?? But I'm getting ahead of myself, need to do the autopsy first to see where it failed. Surprisingly the left side is holding. I did purchase 2 sets of seals in case I messed one up, so I have a spare to experiment with.

Scott, the filter crud is assumed to be old rubber bits from the old OEM petcocks valves, I had cut my own valves out neoprene gaskets years ago, but with the ethanol fuel, it probably broke it down and made it down the lines. The lines are good quality MotionPro stuff. The new petcocks have full tower metal mesh in-tank screens/filters.

Surprisingly, in 2011, the alternator was relatively cheap at around $80.00 with S&H included. I just had to pay full retail due to the brick/mortar store overhead. Because they are designed for racing applications, both drag as well as round track, street and strip, they only have a 1 year warranty, and I got 5 out of it! The specs stated they are rated for up to 18K rpms, with my pulley 1:1 ratio, it only gets to 8k max, mostly at 3-5 k constant speeds. They are supposed to have sealed bearings with special grease for low resistance for max horsepower/minimal drag. When I put the old one back in during the rebuild, I may have set the belt tension a little too tight, and it's a very short 20" long belt, and so may not have allowed enough slack?? That combined with the enclosed case, sitting behind the engine head 200+ degree radiant heat, 85+ ambient temps, and stop and go traffic may have cooked the bearing lube and the excessive belt tension could have led to the eventual bearing failure?

The steering geometry is much better. With my old bent frame/and reduced trail/rake the bike had a tendency to oversteer in corners...and I would need to consciously adjust my input to keep the bike on the line it needed to be instead of veering into/across the center lane on left hand twisties!! It now holds a course line very well...I still don't like left hand twisties, but it will now track the curve where I aim it. And when negotiating turns with bumps, it didn't feel like it had the wag the tail affect, but I didn't have the rear shocks set up as good as I possibly could. With the saddlebag frames on, I couldn't adjust the spring preloads, was only able to add some air into the air assist chambers which helped to stop the bottoming out I experienced on large dips/bumps especially with the extra weight I had in my bags/trunk/extra suitcase.

The engine mounts regrettably are almost as hard a solid, and that did induce some increased vibration that is felt in the handlebars and footpegs, and so my view in my mirrors was quite shaky/blurry! IF I have to pull the engine to do the repeat Dremmel fix, I may try to find some other more rubbery polyurethane material instead.

Okay, hope I covered everything.
T.C.

[3Phase]

Oops, posted in the wrong thread.

T.C.,

Aside from the all those mechanical problems, how did your major mods like welding up the frame, dropping/pounding in new engine mounts and riding with a not-bent steering neck work for you?

What happened to the alternator? Those things aren't cheap, why did the bearings go bad after such a short period of time?

I think the exhaust paint will be fine until it's not, just enjoy it. They don't use stainless steel and chrome plating for exhaust systems just to aggravate environmentalists and to tick off treehuggers.


Unless those dark chunks in the fuel filter are from a disintegrating fuel hose there might be a problem. I see you have aftermarket fuel taps, does that mean there are no in-tank filter screens? Eh, whatever.

If they're rust chunks, you have a one-of-a-kind fuel tank and paint job so wash it out and clean it up, then hit it with electrolysis. That'll convert some of the irreplaceable almost-rust back into good iron and do most of the heavy cleaning. Finish up with Evaporust to get the nooks and crannies. Flush it out with dilute phosphoric acid to coat it, then neutralize it with TSP substitute/sodium metasilicate and rinse. Dry it, refill it with fuel and go ride somewhere -- anywhere! or fog/coat it with your favorite anti-rust fogging/coating solution. I like WD-40, cheap transmission fluid and a little paint thinner, then let it drain out through the fuel tap holes into a pan.

[ViperRon]

TC sorry for the issues you dealt with way too many but you persevered where many would not have. From experience those new cables are crap remember you had to save me on the first Rally I was on. You had started to mention Oil shaft seals????????? Something about teeth in your A$$ ????? If so remember me and the Indian Head Gasket cement.

[TopCatGr58]

Frame geometry

Hey RichV,

Okay, you said you put a Special's front end onto a Standard's Frame.

The standards and specials have the same effective rake/trail with their respective parts. However, the Special has the leading axle, the standard has the fork end axle mount, and so their TripleTrees are designed differently to adjust for the different axle locations to end up with the same rake/trail despite the different axle locations.

The Special has the fork tubes placed closer, further rearward towards the steering neck due to the more forward axle position. The standard has the fork tubes a little more forward away from the neck due to the fork end axle location.

Just need clarification on your parts swap....you say you put a whole SG front end onto your standard....was it just the fork tubes/sliders but did you use the standard's TT's, or did you also swap out for the special's TT?

Fredintoon has informed us that the sidecar guys would put Special TT's onto their Standards sidecar hacks, but kept the standards forks/sliders/axle, and this would move the tubes closer to the steering neck which would reduce the trail and ease up the steering to make it lighter in the sidecar setup.

If you put a Standard's TT onto a special/forks/sliders/leading axle, you would increase the trail and make it heavier for steering.

But if you put the entire TT and matching tubes/sliders/axle from special to standard or Vice Versa, you will NOT change the trail/rake since ALL of the steering components are still together on the front end.

The Specials upper tubes are LONGER due to the higher leading axle location, the standards upper tubes are shorter due to the end of tubes axle location, but the lower sliders are designed to end up with the same overall length and position of the axle so the frame/steering neck should be at the same height/location.

However, the Standard does have a taller rear wheel, and that can have the frame sitting a little higher....the centerstands are different in length for the special and standards.

The standard TT places the fork tubes a little more forward, and with the angle of the TT's, that could position the upper tubes a little higher in position which could lower the position/height of the steering neck, but just a few mm's or so.

Perhaps the SG front end springs aren't as sprung/compressed vs. the standards, and that combined with the taller standard rear tire, it may be sitting higher??

T.C.