Adding a Helle 500

[Prisoner6]

And, to prolong the agony, it is also the first name of one of the Wheeze sisters.

CZ

Thank you, thank you , I'll be here all week.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8E_zMLCRNg

[3Phase]

Thank you, thank you , I'll be here all week.

<tips waitress>

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[CaptonZap]

Boo! <gasp> BOO!

.

Thank you, thank you , I'll be here all week.

[3Phase]

And, to prolong the agony, it is also the first name of one of the Wheeze sisters.

CZ

Boo! <gasp> BOO!

.

[CaptonZap]

Prisoner6 Thanks for the play on HELLA. ( for those not familiar Hella is a brand of lights)



Phil

And, to prolong the agony, it is also the first name of one of the Wheeze sisters.

CZ

[MaximPhil]

Thanks TC & 3Phase for your explanation.
It's still electrickery and a mystery to me
But I am confused on a much higher plane

Prisoner6 Thanks for the play on HELLA. ( for those not familiar Hella is a brand of lights)

To morrow I will have to check as I may have blown up my alternator
I also have to replace the replaced melted connector.....again
Phil

[Prisoner6]

And it is a good thing, 'cause we were going to take up a collection to send you to the Hellaspont.

I don't know, Cap ...

I'm a pretty decent swimmer, but an open water race?

Hella, no!

[rover]

Hella lot of info

Now that I am convinced there is enough power, I plan on mounting the Hella above the original headlight on my windjammer. I will tap into the high beam circuit and use that as a trigger for a relay, and through a switch, wire the Hella direct from the battery with #10 or 12 wire. It will only come on with the high beam headlight, and be switchable. That should not be offensive to oncoming traffic unless I forget to dim.

[CaptonZap]

Thanks, TC ...

That's a really good overview of the electrical system (and a Hella-van explanation, I might add), and I will keep it for future reference ...

But I was really just trying to lighten things up with a "Hella" quip.


P.S. Maybe I should start a thread in the Lounge about Hella-copters ...

P.P.S. OK, that's enough for today ... I'm done.

And it is a good thing, 'cause we were going to take up a collection to send you to the Hellaspont.

[3Phase]

Hella lightening deal!

#6,

Adding extra lights can do anything from just being annoying and running down the battery to a Hella lotta burning up of the alternator and a Hella lotta wires too.


Alternators and vehicle electrical systems are only designed to use 1/2 to 2/3 of the alternator maximum rated output continuously: 1/2 is for a normal alternator, 2/3 is considered a heavy duty alternator.

The maximum rated output of the XS11 alternator is 20 Amps and that's maximum, not continuous. That used to be a totally awesome amount of power for a motorcycle but to run with T.C.'s water analogy it's a pump rated at a maximum of 20 Gallons per minute.

For various reasons, most of them having to do with the real world and the age of the pump and the plumbing instead of factory idealized ratings for a brand new installation, you will never be able to run that pump at 20 gallons a minute except for very short periods of time before the plumbing bursts or the pump quits.

Now put that 20 Amps or Gallons into a pie, cut it into thirds and you get 6.66 Amps or Gallons per third.

From that pie the XS itself uses roughly 2/3 of the output: ~13 1/3 Amps (or Gallons if you still need the water and pump comparison). That's right smack dab in the 'heavy duty' range that continuously uses 2/3 of the maximum rated output.

Over thirty years ago that theoretically left 1/3 of the available factory rated maximum output pipe dream or 6.66 out of 20 that's supposed to be available for use but really is not.

Again, only very expensive alternators are designed to supply their maximum rated output continuously, the XS11 and its alternator is not one of those premium designs and it's already maxed out just running down the road in stock trim with no accessories.


The XJ11 alternator is a slight improvement but it adds the complexity of a pair of carbon brushes that eventually wear out and need to be replaced.

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[Prisoner6]

You know, I have practically ZERO knowledge about how the electrical system works on our bikes. I wouldn't know a volt from an ohm from an amp.

So I just have to ask:

What the Hella you guys talking about?

... Hope this helps you to better understand the limits of the electrical system on the bike, and why it's so important to have very clean harness connections so that you don't loose power/voltage due to just connector resistance.....which generates heat and also can make the component that the power was going to work less effectively!

Thanks, TC ...

That's a really good overview of the electrical system (and a Hella-van explanation, I might add), and I will keep it for future reference ...

But I was really just trying to lighten things up with a "Hella" quip.


P.S. Maybe I should start a thread in the Lounge about Hella-copters ...

P.P.S. OK, that's enough for today ... I'm done.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Prisoner,

The bike's electrical system runs off of the battery which has ~12V(Pressure to push the electricity thru the wire), and can provide ~300 Cold Cranking Amps(volume of electricity power) when starting, but for a very short time, that's why if the bike won't start with the first few hits, then eventually the battery will get depleted/drained as it tries to provide the power needed to turn the starter motor.

The bike has an Alternator...not a generator because it creates Alternating (AC) current similar to your household but at lower voltages...~21 total volts..but then the Alternating current has to get Rectified....turned into straight DC (Direct Current) and regulated down to around 14 volts so that it can RECHARGE the battery that is loosing power by providing power to the bikes electrical demands.

The lights on the bike use up a certain amount of electricity...and so they are rated at watts....like a 60 or 100 watt light bulb...this is where it gets a little tricky in that to figure out how much volume(amps) of electricity you are using/needing, you divide the # of watts of power you need by the # of volts that are pushing it, and you get the approx amount of Volume of power you are using/needing. SO....a 55 watt AUX driving light that is divided by 12 volts yields ~4.5 amps of power. The tail lights run 8 watts(.75Amps) on dim(running) and 23 watts on bright(brake), same for front running/turn signals. The dash lights also use ~8 watts each, and there are several in each gauge, plus the license plate, as well as neutral, high beam, turn signal indicators. Then you also need power/watts to run the Ignition system, both the black box/TCI as well as the pickup coils and the ignition spark plug coils, also the gauges...tach/speedo.

The Bikes alternator can only create at a maximum of ~20 amps at full charging capacity....and so with a headlight, all of the other lights, ignition system....it can run very close to the total output of the charging system close to 15 amps or so....it's not good to run the charging system at FULL CHARGE ALL THE TIME.....will eventually burn components up....and then you try to add 2 additional 55 watt/4.5 amp AUX driving lights....and you can overload the charging system and cause a meltdown!

So...with LEDs, instead of using 8 to 23 watts/0.75 to ~2 amps for each bulb, they only draw 0.3 amps....a considerable power savings which add up fairly quickly....and so with LEDS it frees up lots of amps that can then be used for other aux devices like extra driving lights, heated vest, gloves, grips, radio, gps, etc.! Hope this helps you to better understand the limits of the electrical system on the bike, and why it's so important to have very clean harness connections so that you don't loose power/voltage due to just connector resistance.....which generates heat and also can make the component that the power was going to work less effectively!

T.C.

PS, and OHM is the RESISTANCE of the wire to be able to carry the electricty thru it...small wires can only carry a small amount/Amps of current, larger wires can carry more. The lights bulbs have resistance, that's what causes the filament to heat up as the electricity goes thru it. We use an Ohmeter to determine both how much resistance there is in a wire/circuit....but also to determine IF the wire is intact vs. broken.

[MaximPhil]

HI Rover
I run two driving lights and found at 55 watts a side alternator could not keep up.
Changed to 35watt bulbs so one 55 should be fine.
Recomend fitting a volt meter to monitor usage.
Phil

[Prisoner6]

Question

You know, I have practically ZERO knowledge about how the electrical system works on our bikes. I wouldn't know a volt from an ohm from an amp.

So I just have to ask:

What the Hella you guys talking about?

[IanDMacDonald]

Well . . . With the exception of my turn signals (4-way riding lights), and my tail light, I have led's everywhere else, including driving lights. I have a switch panel I fabbed to turn them on & off. I also use a heated vest in the Fall. I CANNOT run both at the same time, as my voltage meter shows the alternator not keeping-up with the demand. I would advise you to install a voltmeter on the bike if you run accessories. As Nate said, 20 amps spreads very thinly on the bike.