SS Brake lines

[crazy steve]

The problem with 'DOT approved' items is there's little or no enforcement except at the federal level, and that's pretty much restricted to vehicle manufacturers, interstate trucking, and commercial passenger vehicles. The states take responsiblity for everything else and enforcement is spotty at best. Really what it all boils down to is by stating that a particular item is 'DOT approved', the seller and/or manufacturer is accepting legal liability if their product is proven to not meet that standard and that resulted in a loss and/or injury. But the burden for proving that is on whoever suffers the loss, and that's not easily done.

The UL label is a different deal; there is enforcement through local inspection agencies, and if a manufacturer gets caught 'cheating' there's very real consequences. Federal-Pacific was a major panelboard manufacturer that made a design change in their circuit breakers without UL notification or testing. They got away with it for a few years, but when finally tested and it failed, facing a recall of literally millions of breakers they went out of business. Cadet heaters had the same issue some years ago, and barely survived the repair/replacement of non-complying heaters.

[CaptonZap]

IMHO, if the mfg tested their equipment to confirm it meets the DOT standards, then using the term "DOT Approved" is not misleading. Sure one can argue that the MFG could put that sticker on anything and never test or skew test results, reality of that is that the same could be true if DOT were doing the testing.

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That was my point. If the hose manufacturer says it is DOT approved, that would be as good as a helmet manufacturer saying its helmet is DOT approved.
And quibbling over who tested/didn't test it, approve/not approve it, strikes me as about the same as Slick Willy debating what the definition of "is, is".
Mostly indulged in by mall cops and unemployed geeks.

And now, back to your regularly scheduled arguments. CZ

[DGXSER]

Regarding all this chatter about DOT, the mfg is required to verify that their equipment meets the DOT established standard. Reality check here is that this is no different than pretty much every other component on your bike, car, or anything else you buy. Almost every thing you buy that is stated to meet a standard, with the exception of UL ratings, is only tested by that mfg and then stated if it meets the standard or not.

So while there is room for skepticism about the DOT sticker, or how to phrase the compliance, The application of the sticker is as good as it gets. As Steve stated, the DOT does test some helmets, and other components. IMHO, if the mfg tested their equipment to confirm it meets the DOT standards, then using the term "DOT Approved" is not misleading. Sure one can argue that the MFG could put that sticker on anything and never test or skew test results, reality of that is that the same could be true if DOT were doing the testing.

As to DOT vs Snell, HERE is the MSF info on it. Pretty much what I recall from my MSF Course.

[crazy steve]

Those helmets are self certified by the helmet manufacturers who themselves state that the helmets meet DOT standards, DOT does NOT test or certify helmets EVER!

Actually, DOT does test helmets, but it's on a strictly random basis simply to check to see if 'representive' self-certified samples really do meet their standards; they don't test every model from every manufacturer. You can look here: http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/testing/comply/fmvss218/ ... to see if yours was tested but if it's not it doesn't mean anything one way or the other.

[cywelchjr]

Hey Nate, tell us about the DOT label on helmets?
Why do the helmet companies put it on there, or tell us that the helmets are DOT approved? CZ

Those helmets are self certified by the helmet manufacturers who themselves state that the helmets meet DOT standards, DOT does NOT test or certify helmets EVER! SNELL on the other does indeed actually test the helmets, but there is quite a bit of controversy as SNELL standards require much more of the blow to reach the head, which means more G forces reaching the brain. This is NOT good especially as you get older and can take less of them without injury. DOT standards allow LESS G forces to get to the head, which means a softer liner and less brain injury in many cases of the same impact. That said SNELL helmets tend to have tougher shells than DOT helmets as far as for harder impacts, but if your brain doesn't survive the impact I figure what does it matter?

But again, other than some commercial interstate transportation stuff, DOT doesn't inspect and/or approve anything other than standards. Manufacturers are responsible for certifying their OWN products, and in the case of helmets placing a sticker stating so onto the helmet, and while DOT doesn't test, it IS a violation to state that a helmet meets the standards if it doesn't, and a company can be fined significantly if it gets caught knowingly selling helmets marked as DOT approved that don't actually meet the standards.

[CaptonZap]

Not trying to start an argument or anything, sorry just one of my pet peevs. that dot approved line is just BS and very misleading to most people because they don't understand what it really means. I have seen some really crappy parts that say "DOT Approved" on it.

Hey Nate, tell us about the DOT label on helmets?
Why do the helmet companies put it on there, or tell us that the helmets are DOT approved? CZ

[natemoen]

Which is an indictment on our tort system more than their ability to make quality brake lines.

+1 to that!!

[crazy steve]

If you want an approval that actually means something, look for the German 'TUV approved'. They actually do test samples of the item before allowing them to be sold marked as approved.

[clcorbin]

Most hydraulic shops I have worked with won't touch brake lines with a 10 foot pole!

Which is an indictment on our tort system more than their ability to make quality brake lines.

[natemoen]

Not trying to start an argument or anything, sorry just one of my pet peevs. that dot approved line is just BS and very misleading to most people because they don't understand what it really means. I have seen some really crappy parts that say "DOT Approved" on it.

Most hydraulic shops I have worked with won't touch brake lines with a 10 foot pole!

[BA80]

Any place that makes hydraulic lines should be able to build them. They really aren't anyhing special to build.






Just for you Cy.....

[cywelchjr]

No worries--I know they have good intentions.

We especially like to argue with Greg. We like it when his face turns red from frustration.

Of course while I'm sure those are good lines, IIRC many of the other lines available are at least 1/3 less. And on my budget, every penny counts. However, if they were around here (and as far as I can tell they are NOT) I would check into them anyways, cause I would KNOW they would fit. But right now stock lines are what I'm going to be running for a while yet.

[Edisto]

No worries--I know they have good intentions.

[BA80]

Don't worry Ed. Nate and Cy argue with everyone.

[Edisto]

Points taken. I know they are a reputable company, and their prices seem fair. Like I said--just trying to pass on some options for anyone trying to find ss lines.

I do not work for them, or have any stock options or relatives working for them.